This thread is for proof that God exists

by juandefiero 375 Replies latest jw friends

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  Coded Logic

  when some people loose faith in reality they sometimes do not think correctly especially when reality hurts very much and they have to deal with it and the only way to cope with such pain is to believe that reality does not exists even though in the back of their minds they know it.

  -Fisherman

  This doesn't fit the bill of a single non-believer that I know. However, it does sound an awful lot like almost every single religious person I've ever met. When they don't get relief they say things like "God has a plan" or "God will make everything perfect in the next life" or "God works in mysterious ways" etc. Instead of dealing with reality they try and change the very nature of reality by proposing an unknown and inexplicable solution.

  "It is comical." -Marvin Shiimer to hear people demand proof of God from other people.

  I agree. An all powerful God should be more than capable of speaking up for himself. If I want someone to know of my existence I would go introduce myself. Surely God can do at least that.

  So the fact that we're still debating the existence of such a being after thousands of years means there's really only two conclusions that can be reached. Either God is hiding. Or God doesn't exist.

  To paraphrase Raymond Franz: .."it would be a puny God if he could be subjected to being measured or proof.."

  I don't see how being measured or shown to exist makes you "puny". However, if people can question your very existence - well that's about the weakest position I can think of. The greater a person's influence, the more they show up on the radar. And the more unremarkable a person is - the more they fade into the background. An all powerful God should be front and center.
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  Fisherman

  Does that include Mormons and Muslims who also claim to have personal revelation of god's presence?

  I believe that you mean that anyone can claim to have some experience that they claim convinces them that God is real. If that is what you mean then since I cannot speak for anyone, I cannot invalidate their experience to them or to others based on their claims -or as everyone see it my claims- but I am able to conclude for myself whether or not what they claim is true based upon what I know. And that is all that matters to me.

  Sometimes people believe something that is not true and sometimes they just claim something is true (for a lot of different reasons) and do not know for a fact that it is true or are just lying. ( And it is a lengthy topic to discuss how and why people think the way they do and how and why they believe what they they do, and why people claim what they do, etc.)
  
  And that is why I posted the statement :"It is comical." -Marvin Shiimer to hear people demand proof of God from other people. Belief in Jehovah is a personal conclusion. T
  
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  Fisherman

  I don't see how ...

  As you wish
  
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  cofty

  Fish - Ponder for a moment about how unmoved you feel when you hear a Mormon testify about how he just knows that the Book of Mormon is true.

  Now you can perhaps understand how others feel when you resort to your personal feelings as evidence for god.
• 

  Fisherman

  Now you can perhaps understand how others feel when you resort to your personal feelings as evidence for god.

  I understand more than you know. All that I am saying is that the only thing that will convince YOU (not me) is evidence from Jehovah, not claims from me or from anyone else. And that is why it is "amusing" -Marvin Shilmer to readthat people would demand evidence from others. Luke 16:31
  
  
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  cofty

  All that I am saying is that the only thing that will convince YOU (not me) is evidence from Jehovah

  I used to have that delusion.
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  Fisherman

  I used to have that delusion.

  I cannot help you.
  
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  Fisherman

  For the record though, Jehovah's Witnesses mean Jehovah's Evidence or evidence from Jehovah. One Biblical Hebrew word (there are others and the language expresses ideas in different terms and it is not possible to convey some ideas in exactly in English words) for evidence is"ayd" or ed. The talking horse Mr Ed, "from the horses mouth", is an allusion to that - "amusing" and "comical" and enertainingas Marvin Shilmer would say.
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  Fisherman

  The idea that the material universe with it's laws, made itself, might just be wishful thinking too. never been seen before, even on a smaller scale.

  What a brilliant understanding of faith prologos! And to show examples of things that are faithful:The sun is faithful, Old Faithful is faithful, the universe is faithful, God is faithful.

  And faith in them can only be based upon not the evidence of their existence but proof of their conduct
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  Fisherman

  The idea that the material universe with it's laws, made itself, might just be wishful thinking too. never been seen before, even on a smaller scale.
  

  I find it hard to believe too that the transition or change from nothing to something happened without energy or cause and after that change, it randomly decided to choose the drive (set of physical laws) and direction it did forming the universe . It is like playing the lottery with 6.02 x 10 23 different numbers and winning 6.02 x 10 24 times by chance if a person should live so long.

  And then, another change from death (chemical molecules and laws of chemistry) to living organisms, all laws and systemic processes demonstrating faithful predictable conduct but evolving and or forming randomly without intelligence.

  I have never seen anything like that in the "real world."