Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LongHairGal

  GONE FOR GOOD:

  I came into the JW religion as a lapsed Catholic in the late seventies. But, I was not told the REAL story..

  Let me just say that I am sorry for everybody here who has lost family members because of the shunning routine.

  My first congregation was like a 1950s time warp.. I was the only young working woman among a sea of Stepford-type women who thought I was an oddity. Because they couldn’t get me to quit my job and ‘get with their program of pioneering’ some people wouldn’t say hello.. I was ‘punished’ by not being invited anywhere..I hardly had any friends and a few elderly were kind to me.

  I was also scrutinized because somebody said my skirts weren’t long enough.

  I ended up transferring to another congregation..‘somewhat’ better but the story was pretty much the same:..they were looking for drudges to do favors and were pushing pioneering..Meanwhile, like the previous congregation, almost ALL the older people were collecting a pension because they were in the workforce! See the hypocrisy???

  I ‘Faded’ when the time was right..Today I am a Retiree so Grateful I never listened to any of these people.
• 

  Phizzy

  "I'm not sure how the letter you guys are talking about would not be construed as a formal disassociation in and of itself."

  This is the danger, but the "Letter" prevents them from taking the Action of Announcing you as "No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", hopefully, as long as you threaten Legal Action if they do so.

  Their Committee formed to decide if you have Disassociated yourself, the Elders Book says, is NOT "Ecclesiastical" , so how can they take any action against a proven non member, by a Committee with no Ecclesiastical Authority ?

  They have missed the boat, yes, you did in fact disassociate yourself at the Date of the letter, but the time is gone, they cannot Defame the name of a person who is now a mere member of the Public and hope to get away with it.

  The same would apply, if you have the letter, to an Ecclesiastical Judicial Committee, but if you committed a "Sin" as defined by them BEFORE the Date of the Letter, while still a member, you may be in trouble, but it may still help, so again Good Luck everybody !

  It occurs to me also that the Org itself is unlikely to support the Elders involved, or even the Congregation, in a financial way, they will give advice, over the 'phone, once your Letter is revealed to them, to leave well alone, if they have a modicum of sense. If the Elders then go ahead, they are on their own.
  
  
• 

  TD

  Phizzy,

  This is the danger, but the "Letter" prevents them from taking the Action of Announcing you as "No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses"....

  How would this work in the U.K.?
• 

  Phizzy

  Sorry T.D, and others, I did not really make that bit clear.

  Under U.K Law and no doubt in the USA and other Countries, it would make it plain that you would Sue for Defamation of Character, if they are merely declaring you, in an Announcement, as DA'd.

  The other aspect is the U.K's Human Rights Act, which they would be in breach of for the same reasons that are mentioned in the Swiss case, but this is U.K law, so one would not have to fight anything in the European Courts. This of course would be a different Legal battle from the Defamation case, but still a strong case can be made. I am confident the Threat of both Legal Actions would be sufficient to get the Elders to back off. In both Cases they would have to mount a Defence, what on earth are they going to say ?

  As discussed above, someone facing a Judicial Committee, which is Ecclesiastical, would be in a different, and harder, situation.
• 

  TD

  Phizzy,

  In all but a tiny handful of exceptions, truth is an absolute defense against defamation here in the U.S.

  Perhaps that's not the case in the U.K.? (I honestly don't know)
• 

  gone for good

  Phizzy -

  We're making headway here!

  Let's visualize a few progressing scenarios...

  You are likely already fading or wondering how to start a fade, PIMO (Physically In Mentally Out)

  You still attend regularly only for personal/family reasons -kids, grandchildren, friendships = PIMO

  You have long stopped contributing financially. not engaging in any"field service", not reporting and not commenting at meetings (so no longer being addressed as Brother, Sister.)

  Your letter has already been written, dated, notarized, and is instantly available.

  You wrote the letter when you were in good standing, so no committees were in progress by the date you penned your letter.

  Your letter contains only these two FACTS: * You have exercised your legal right to freedom of religion as per state/nation laws.

  * Your intent to sue any person or group who contravenes your freedom in any way. -by henceforth collecting, storing or sharing any personal information about you - by any form of ecclesiastical actions directed at you - including but not limited to: * the public announcing of your name or your religious affiliations (or lack thereof) * any attempt to incite others to contravene your freedoms of association, speech, movement and religion as stated by law.# ( Cite the law).......

  Your letter offers no reasons for your choice (unnecessary). contains no inflammatory comments (Unnecessary and unwise),.

  You attend meetings to socialize with family and friends, (you are a real friend to those you love).

  You are not a JW anymore but no one knows this yet - *important point for later*

  You are not suffering persecution from JWs yet.

  You have now claimed for yourself, the very same rights and freedoms the WT proudly boasts to have claimed for itself and its' members...

  Jump in here everyone,.. let's build a bullet proof scenario
• 

  gone for good

  TD -

  Reply (and apology) coming tonight.
• 

  Earnest

  Phizzy : Under U.K Law and no doubt in the USA and other Countries, it would make it plain that you would Sue for Defamation of Character, if they are merely declaring you, in an Announcement, as DA'd.

  In the Swiss case against Regina Spiess on a charge of defamation she was found not guilty either because what she wrote was true (Proof of Truth) or because she had good reason to believe it was true.(Proof of Good Faith) or because it could not be construed as defamation..

  If you have produced a document (whenever it was dated) to say you are no longer a member of Jehovah's Witnesses, and confirm that, and then an announcement is made at the Kingdom Hall that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, how can that possibly be defamatory.

  Phizzy : what on earth are they going to say ?

  Likely they would say you told us you were no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you showed it to us in writing, and so we informed the congregation. Case closed.
  
• 

  Anna Marina

  They misuse the identity 'Jehovah's Witness'. So might it be better to say you are no longer a member of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?

  The term 'Jehovah's Witness' was lifted from the book of Isaiah and does not refer to them, but the house of Jacob. It is used by the Society as a way to call themselves Christians.
  
• 

  Phizzy

  I think upon further reflection, and further research prompted by excellent points made in Posts above, my thanks to TD and others, that what I now refer to as "The Letter" LOL, has to be relied upon only as a Threat, one that in actual fact you would be ill advised to carry out by actually going to Court, at least here in the U.K.

  Of course, you must assert to any Legal person signing or Witnessing it, whatever, that the threat is real, see Post above, or they will not agree to notarise it or sign it. As in reality you will not use it in Court, you could get it Witnessed by two people, not related to you, and it would still look good, and not cost you.

  The Defamation of Character thing would depend for success on a Court interpreting that damage to your reputation is more important than the Defence of Truth, which I doubt.

  I can see a problem too under the Human Rights Act 1998 for U.K Residents, this is a very arcane point, but one you may have to fight to establish in Court, and again, the Court may not see things your way. I will not spell it out here, as the JW Legal Attack Dogs may not have spotted it.

  Again I stress, The Letter may deter Elders, for fear they will personally be Sued, but to actually go to Court , and lose, would do none of us any favours, and cost a huge amount.