the greatest of peace to you!
Aguest, I would like to ponder your thought of the condition of mans heart;
By all means... let's...
SJ wrote: "it is what is truly in our HEARTS... that is examined."
Ellderwho wrote: "The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of man to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3. All have turned aside, they have all together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.' Ps. 14:2,3 NIV
Indeed. That was before our Lord was sent to SHOW us...
"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure..." Jer 17:9 NIV "The heart is more treacherous than any thing else..." Jer 17:9 NWT
Well, yes... depending on which transliteration you use for the Hebrew word 'anash {aw-nash'}: 1) to be weak, sick, frail a) (Qal) 1) to be incurable 2) to be sick 3) desperate, incurable, desperately wicked, woeful, very sick (pass participle) (metaph.) b) (Niphal) to be sick
I would most certainly agree that the heart IS sick and IS desperate, so those transliterations would be pretty accurate. However, it is not "incurable"... for are we not told to PURIFY our hearts? If the heart cannot BE purified, why would our Lord tell us to do it? Therefore, the transliteration "incurable" cannot be accurate, for are we not to cleanse the INSIDE of the cup? Yet, how can we if it cannot be done? But we can, by being like our Lord, the One about whom it is written was "guileless".
Our Lord had a heart that was purified... PREPARED. Why? Because it was RECEPTIVE: it could RECEIVE the spirit of God INTO it... so that by means of such spirit... "living WATER"... it could BE "cleansed"... purified. Like Nathaniel, of whom our Lord said, "an Israelite for a certainly in whom there is NO DECEIT." Thus, Nanthaniel COULD be called... drawn... for his heart was RECEPTIVE.
Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:15; Acts 28:27
And it is those whose hearts are GUILELESS... that men seek to seduce into worshipping Satan... seek to mislead, if possible... by teaching hatred: for God, their neighbor, their brother... and their enemy. But that is not what the Christ taught us... and so, we are not RECEPTIVE to such false teachings. They are from "strangers" and not from our Fine Shepherd.
Romans 16:18; Matthew 5:43-48; Matther 24:24; John 10:1-15, 27; Hebrews 7:26
Thus, the heart CAN be cleansed... it CAN be "cured". For in truth, that is what the "leaves" of the Tree are FOR: the "curing" of the nations. But we do not have to wait until the full establishment of the "recreation" for such cleansing to occur - it can start now. We CAN make our hearts RECEPTIVE... by eat such "leaves" and drinking of such "water"... NOW. "ANYONE" of us.
John 14:23, 24; John 13:34; John 7:37, 38; John 6:48-15, 53-56; John 15:4-7; John 6:56
However, in eating from such Tree and drinking from such cistern, we must first SCRUTINIZE ourselves. For what? To determine if there exists IN us... the "leaven of the Pharisees,"... hypocrisy. Why? Because with the SAME judgment that we are judging, we will BE judged. Thus, if we eat and drink while judging another... we are eating and drinking judgment... unto ourselves! No, we must first be CLEAN... to the best of our ability... in that sense. If we want to be "released" from our sins... we must "release" those who have sinned against us. If we want to be forgiven for our trespasses... we must forgive those who've trespassed against us. How many times? I think you know the answer to that.
And it is on this type of love that the entire Law "hangs" - all things you want men to do to YOU (and you do not wish to be judged or condemned for your sins or errors, but rather, forgiven and released)... YOU... must do to THEM.
"What comes out of a mens hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery..."Mt 20:10; Mk 7:21
You misstate this verse: it is not saying that everything that comes out of a man's heart is such things. It is saying that such things... come out of man's heart. But there are other things that come out of a man's heart, including good things. For if God and Christ TRULY reside in such one, then it is the "fruit" of God's spirit that comes from a man's heart: love, joy, peace, faith, kindness, mildness, goodness, long-suffering and self-control. And against such things... there is NO law. For it is God's spirit that brings such things forth. No, I am not saying that the individual is "good"... for there is no one that is "good", except One. However, our "works" can be "good"... for "goodness" is a fruit of God's spirit.
And to some degree, some of have some of things already. But only to a very limited degree. Given the right circumstances, our love can change to hate, our joy to bitterness, our peace to contention, our faith to doubt, our kindness to unloving, our mildness to aggression, our long-suffering to impatience, and our self-control to a lack thereof. However, by means of the spirit of God, THROUGH CHRIST... we can "conquer" and overcome such negative things. Perhaps not all at once... but over time. For God (through Christ) will FINISH our training. That is why we, as sons, continually receive discipline.
For if we could get it all right while still in the flesh, we would surpass the flesh entirely... as well as a need... for a "saviour". We could, then, save ourselves. WE... could stand before the fact of God WITHOUT a mediator. But that is not the case. As long as we are in the flesh we WILL sin... we WILL stumble... we WILL fall short. Sooner... or later. Because the flesh is a slave... to sin. But the SPIRIT need not be. The SPIRIT... we can give to Christ... for HIM to cleanse... to mold... to shape... to train... and to make "righteous." The filth of the flesh will remain until it dies.
SJ wrote: but to those whose "yes" means "yes"... and whose "no" means "no" (when making an agreement... or covenant... with another).
Ellderwho wrote: As a condition of the heart Im not sure what your implying.
It means that when you make an agreement to do something, or to NOT do something, your fingers are not crossed behind you back, literally... or in your heart, technically. It means that what you vow to GOD... you pay to God. Does this mean you cannot change your mind? No, it does not. Often times circumstances change, so the mind (and heart) changes. Even God changes His mind (think Nineveh). However, it is with regard to where you heart lies at the time you made the agreement.
However, a heart and mind that changes solely because the BENEFIT to the one changing... with no benefit to the other person... is deceitful. For instance, if I agree to sell you my car for $500... and we've reached an agreement... but Mizpah comes along later and offers me $600 for it, I cannot sell it to him at that price and still claim to be clean in heart. I am not, for I have deceived you: you believed the car was yours, based on our AGREEMENT.
But, let's say we have an agreement for $500, and I know you're only buying it because it's cheap - you already have 3 cars and are really planning to sell this one for, say $700. Yet, Class Avenger is in desperate need of a car... to get to the store, doctor, work... and truly can only afford $400, but is also willing to pay $500. I can choose to sell it to Class Avenger to offset his/her NEED... versus your desire to make a profit. And... I can sell it to him/her for $400, if I wish to. But... I cannot sell it to him/her for $600, just because he/she is desperate and in need. That would be a wicked scale and a disregard toward "the lowly one."
SJ wrote: And the spirit and the bride KEEP ON saying: 'Come!' And let ANYONE hearing say: 'Come!' And let ANYONE thirsting come; let ANYONE THAT WISHES... take life's water free."
Ellderwho wrote: Notice in your quote it is the "spirit" of the bride that calls. And anyone hearing Thats the point, who hears?
Forgive me, but you are in error: it is the spirit (or inspired utterance) AND the bride that calls. And "they" call... those who hear. Who is that? Those who've had their "bodies"... prepared: because they put faith in the thing heard from Christ... they are further granted "ears" to hear. Such "ears"... are "excavated" by God, through Christ. The same as eye salve given to those who are blind. God prepare for Christ a body... one that could see and hear that which is "spiritual" once holy spirit occupied it. Christ, by God's authority, prepares US.
Psalm 40:6; Revelation 3:18; Matthew 3:16, 17
You make bold italics in your quote "ANYONE THAT WISHES... "
Indeed. It is important information to know, for that is what it says. There are many, however, who would mislead you from this truth and say that it is only those like them, of their "sort" who are included in that "anyone." This is a lie, just as it is for what my Lord is recorded to have said at John 6:51:
"If ANYONE (and not just some group named by some group from among earthling man) eats of this bread, he WILL live forever..."
With that line of reasoning you have flesh giving birth to spirit. In John, Jesus says to the Pharisee Nicodemus "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but spirit gives birth to spirit."
I am sorry, but I don't I am, for I know that the flesh is of NO use at all, and that it is the SPIRIT that is life giving. Thus, we can want all we wish to with our FLESH (by wearing certain clothing, and putting scripture cases on our foreheads, and washing our hands, and not eating certain things, carrying bookbags, placing magazines, attending meetings, even attempting to adhere to the Law Covenant, etc.). However, it is what we are wishing for with our SPIRIT... that will be examined.
"you do not believe me because you are not my sheep. 27. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me." Jn 10:26,27
But do you understand what our Lord meant when he said these words? He meant that there are those who claim to BE sheep… and at the same time will tell you that our Lord does NOT speak. They will give acknowledgement to Satan and the demons… “strangers”, saying that those have voices, but that our Lord does not.
But is the God of Abraham like the false idols… those who “have mouths BUT DO NOT SPEAK?” No. He, although a SPIRIT… is alive. And His Word, our Lord, is ALIVE… and speaks… from the heavens. And his sheep, those who possess God’s spirit by means of Christ, HEAR his voice: their spirit bears witness to God’s spirit… so that what THEY hear is OF the spirit… and not of the flesh.
A good example of ears that hear is given in John 8:43 Jesus states;
"why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. Obivously the religious leaders spoken of had ears.
Yes, of course, such ones had ears or our Lord would not have even spoken words to them. So, most assuredly, they heard the WORDS our Lord uttered, did they not? But… you are making the same error as many others when you assume that our Lord is speaking of the hearing with the FLESH. He MEANT that they did not get the SENSE of what was said. Why? Because it was not their fleshly ears that did not hear… but their SPIRITUAL ears which could not hear what our Lord was saying. Why? Because their HEARTS… were unreceptive! It was their HEARTS that failed to hear... not their fleshly ears! However, had they made their HEARTS receptive… by means of Christ, God would have given them EARS… of SPIRIT… just as he gives them EYES… by means of the “eyesalve”… HOLY SPIRIT… and they WOULD have heard as well as seen.
They heard his words… and saw his person... did they not? Yet, he called them "blind guides." Why? Because they WERE deaf… and blind... by means of their HARD HEARTS which REFUSED to hear.
Revelation 3:17, 18; Psalm 40:6
Then in verse 47 Jesus says " the reason you cannot hear is that you do not belong to God."
Absolutely! And how is it “evidenced” that one “belongs” to God? Isn’t one “chosen”… “anointed”… with the “oil of exultation”… holy spirit… our Lord being even MORE anointed than us? And it is not such spirit... or "salve"... or "excavation" that grants us eyes to see and ears to hear? Does he not "give ears to the deaf and sight to the blind?" By what MEANS? Perhaps it is you who believes these things have to do with the flesh... versus the spirit. But our Lord said that the flesh... is of no use at all.
Psalm 45:7; John 6:63
So then, who comes to drink life’s water, is the one who hears, and the one who hears, is the one who belongs to God. Nothing on our own. For if it our choice to choose God we will ultimately un-choose God.
Please forgive me, but again, you err. It is true that our Lord said that no one comes to HIM... unless the Father draws such one. But that is the drawing to CHRIST. For this to even START... i t is we who must be WANTING… in order to BE drawn. Why? Because if WE… draw close to God... HE… will draw close to US. And by such drawing close to God on OUR part… we are then… drawn to Christ! Hence, Cornelius’ prayers… were HEARD.
How does that "work"? We... seek God. God knows by our HEART that we seeking Him. It is borne out in our prayers, as well as our works of faith (which I will clarify below). As we try to draw close to GOD... God leads us... DRAWS us... to Christ. Why? Because we can't GET to God... unless we go THROUGH that One. He is the "Door", the "narrow gate", through whom we must pass in order to come to, approach, and know God.
John 14:6
If, however, one tries to get to God WITHOUT going through Christ, one will be disappointed. That one is trying to "climb up some other place," and it is opened to him/her. And folks do it all the time, particularly the WTBTS. True, they teach ABOUT Christ, but they do not lead us TO Christ. Rather, they have REMOVED him from his rightful place, the seat of Moses (as our only mediator), and have placed THEMSELVES in that "seat", saying that unless you join up with THEM and follow THEM... you will not "take in knowledge" of God, nor will you receive everlasting life. But... they are thieves and plunderers. We do NOT need them... for we HAVE a mediator, and he is the ONLY One who stands between us and God. There is no other.
John 10:1, 7-9; Matthew 23:2, 3, 10, 13
It is not in our nature to choose God.
You are correct: our "nature", which we inherited from Adam... is to REJECT God... and choose "bad". However, by means of our SPIRIT… which is at enmity with our "nature"... FLESH… we can, with the help that Christ gives us... holy spirit... GOD'S spirit... overcome this opposition and RETURN to God... RETURN to the "rock" from which we were "hewn".
Think of it: b oth Cain and Abel came from Adam, yes? Yet, Cain had one spirit… and Abel, another. Both Adam and Christ came from God; yet, Adam proved himself to have one spirit… and our Lord, another. Our Lord... and Abel... had GOD's spirit... HOLY spirit. Cain, however, by his hatred for his brother, and Adam, by his desire to "know bad"... proved that THEIR "father"... the one whose spirit "begat" THEM... was the Devil.
Thus, it is not by our FLESH that we prove who our “father” is… God or Satan: it is by our SPIRIT that we prove it. B y proving to which one of these, God or Satan, our SPIRIT is obedient to. AND, if we DO make a wrong choice (and from time to time, we will!), as long as it is not blasphemy against the Spirit... through Christ... our High Priest... we can be forgiven.
1 John 2:1, 2; Mark 3:22-29
But if it is God that chooses us, there is no way to un-choose his decision.
I apologize, but a
gain, you err. God chose King Saul. Personally. Had Samuel anoint him. And it was God... UNchose King Saul… after Saul… UNchose… himself. How? By acquiring a wicked heart and demonstrating that by CHOOSING to do something God specifically told him not to do. And there were others...
And relying on our yes staying yes or our no staying no. Would be relying on ourselves to complete or hold up requirements to enter the Kingdom. Which of course is an impossibility. "After beginning with the spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Gal 3:3
Our “yes” meaning “yes” and “no” meaning “no” has nothing to do with this particular subject, flesh over spirit, other than what you vow to God… you should PAY to God. If, then, you have AGREED to be in the New Covenant, then you should attempt to LIVE by it. Same as with the Old Covenant. But, unlike the Old Covenant, wherein if one could KEEP it, one could gain life by means of being “sinLESS”… the New Covenant is one simply were you live… by means of CHRIST. If, then, you do the WORKS of that one… you are living up to the covenant between you and God which was mediated by him.
What "works"? Well, the "works" of the Old Covenant had to do with eating and drinking and the observance of festivals and dates and times and seasons, of washing with water, of animal sacrifices, and weakness of the FLESH. The "works" of the NEW Covenant are entirely different and James helps us to understand this:
“Show me your faith APART from your works… and I will show you my faith BY my works.”
Thus, t hose who are listed in Hebrews 11 DEMONSTRATED their faith… because faith IS the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION of the things hoped for.
Let me give you an example: after preaching to the masses on the Mount, the disciples told our Lord that the people were hungry. And of course they were, for they had been with him three days with nothing to eat. What did they ask him to do? “Send them away... so they can eat.” But what did he say to them? “YOU FEED THEM!” W hat was their reply? “WE... have nothing... but two small fishes and some loaves.”
Now, common sense would say “that isn’t enough to feed such a large crowd; heck, it isn’t enough to feed Christ and his disciples,” right? But what did our Lord DO? Did he send them away, saying, “Well, folks, glad you could be with us and listen to me for a couple days, but I know you’re all hungry and we don’t even have enough to feed ourselves”? Or… did he EXERCISE FAITH… and FEED THEM? HE knew that GOD... who fed the Israelites (more than 3 million) for more than 40 YEARS... could and WOULD provide for those who had bothered to exercise a LITTLE bit of faith... and listen to His Son for a couple of days... and so HE (Christ) put FAITH in that… and just started passing out food. And… there was PLENTY, wasn’t there? God did not leave him... or anyone... "wanting." Right?
Now, bring it to today: a friend or neighbor… or a stranger… or even your enemy… is hungry. But you have no money… ‘cause you JUST went grocery shopping. And you only bought enough to get you and YOUR family through the week. What do you DO? Do you send such one away, saying, “You know, friend, I wish I could help you, but I just have enough for me and mine. Have you checked with (and you name another friend... or relative… or social service agency)?”
OR… do YOU... DEMONSTRATE YOUR FAITH IN GOD… and DIVIDE OUT... YOUR "bread"… because you KNOW... that GOD will sustain YOU… and repay YOU… you with LITTLE faith... so that YOU have absolutely nothing to worry about… because IF He feeds even the sparrows.... He will SURELY feed you... you with LITTLE faith… and so you do not WORRY about what you are to eat… but KEEP seeking the kingdom... because you KNOW... that if you do THAT… all YOUR needs... WILL be handled... by God?
What do YOU... DO? Do you just “believe” God will feed that person? Or do you DEMONSTRATE that belief by not worrying about your food supply but instead feeding the one in need, knowing that whatever you gave was a gift TO GOD... and that HE will repay you?
Rahab DEMONSTRATED her faith… by HIDING the spies. Abraham DEMONSTRATED his faith by living in tents AND by offering up Isaac.
One can say one “believes” all one wishes to. But while one can “honor” God with one’s lips… one can show his/her HEART to be “far removed”… by one’s works… or lack thereof.
God is a Spirit… and one cannot worship God with the flesh, but MUST worship WITH spirit (and the Truth – John 14:6). If, then, one tries to worship God by adhering to the Law that was impaled with Christ, one enslaves oneself all over again TO that Law, which Law was done away with for those who belong to God through Christ. And by means of such enslavement, if one transgresses ONE law… he/she has transgressed them all.
However, by means of the NEW Covenant… ALL transgressions can be “covered”… and a washed away by the blood of Christ… by means of LOVE. For love… covers a MULTITUDE of transgressions… and there is no law against love. And you cannot be loving God… whom you have NOT seen… if you do not love your brother… whom you HAVE seen. And you do not love your brother if you see him in need, but do not help… if you see him hungry but do not feed him, naked but do not clothe him, a stranger but do not receive him hospitably…
And you most certainly cannot be loving your brother… who may even be your ENEMY… if you have hatred in your heart for him and/or are wishing him to die.
The Christ left us a pattern, dear Ellderwho… and it was not one of following laws and decrees, nor was it one of putting burdens and loads on others… nor was it judging and condemning others. Rather, it was HAVING COMPASSION, HAVING PITY, SHOWING MERCY, FORGIVING, RELEASING… and bearing witness to the WONDERFULNESS of God, by means of healing the sick and resurrecting the dead… rather than the exacting tyranny that many WISH us to believe about Him.
May the undeserved kindness and mercy of MY God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who is slow to anger, merciful and ABUNDANT in loving kindness, the One whose name is JAH… (Psalm 68:4) of Armies… and the peace of His Christ and Son, my Lord, JAHESHUA (Jah Saves) MISCHAJAH (chosen/anointed of JAH), be upon YOU… if you so wish it. Indeed, if YOU are thirsting and YOU are hearing and YOU are wishing, then may you, too, hear what the spirit and bride KEEP ON saying:
“Come! Take life’s water… free!”
May you, too, say, “Blessed is he that comes in the name of JAH…” and give ALL praise and honor and glory to that One and to the One who sent him forth.
Praise JAH ("hallelu-Jah"), all you people! Let every living thing, let every living, breathing thing, let it praise JAH!
Your servant, as I am servant to all those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with them… and a slave of Christ,
SJ
