gambit--- I'm not the first to say the WT uses voodoo . I think it was francois on a different thread but he was right on that one . To me it's like the WTBTS is beating the drums and everyone else is going into some sort of hypnotic trance claiming to speak in tonques and prophesy .There have been many claims on this board as to the corruption of the WT . I am beginning to believe alot more of it than I did when I first started reading this board . People have accused the WT of planting spy technology in the homes of members to use as some sort of control by claiming that God is revealing things about peoples personal lives . They also claim that former dead members are being used by God to communicate with the WTBTS. That can be construed as being a form of spiritism of which the jw will staunchly condemn . I have seen many threads on the moral deterioration on the group as a whole and have to say that even according to them this is due to satanic influence . I think most religionists are under voodoo control .
Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control
by minimus 207 Replies latest jw friends
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garybuss
Pork Chop, To me, the mind control line is just an excuse, like the devil made me do it. I don't buy it. GaryB -
Catren
There have been so many great and thought provoking posts here on this subject!! Speaking for myself, because I think perhaps mind control is a very subjective experience (for instance, there are people who are very good candidates for hypnotism, while others are not), and that I couldn't possibly speak for Witnesses in general (someone would have to do a survey of millions of active Witnesses first), when I look back many moons ago to my zealous years as a Witness, I think I was willingly deluded. However, willingly or unwillingly, I was still deluded. The strange logic taught in the Bible studies, in the literature, and in the talks, etc. had altered the way I thought, the way I perceived things, even the way I felt about certain things. I think maybe my personal background, personal life experiences, personal current life situation and circumstances, my lack of a a religious foundation, my lack of Bible understanding, and so on probably had much to do with my being so easily persuaded that the Jehovah's Witnesses really had the 'truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth'. I think I said and did things of my own free will as a Jehovah's Witness, but looking back what I saw as my free will at that time didn't come from my own independent and autonomous thinking abilities, it came from the perspective of the mindset I'd developed as I became more and more caught up the teachings from the WTBTS. Of course, later on in my Witness 'career', the fear factor played a large part if I found myself wondering about anything that was taught by this "religion". But, and again, I can only speak and am only speaking for myself, I think my mind had been messed with to a point, where it doesn't really seem like it was my own mind, not really. Non totally. Eventually my mind went AWOL, but it was triggered by feelings of unhappiness, depression, and lack of real personal identity first. It was my gut feelings that really instigated a need to escape, not that I hadn't ever begun to quesion anything I was taught. For example, toward the last part of my Witness years I just couldn't buy into celebrating birthdays being a bad thing. It seemed like nonsense this birthday thing. Ultimately, though, it was how I was feeling that started to draw me out. Also, toward "the end", I discovered I couldn't shun people. I knew that I wasn't any 'better' than they were, that I was a mere person, a mere human being with faults and a long list of sins on my log of life. I would have felt so hypocritical shunning anyone, realizing I was not exactly walking around with a halo above my head. Anyway, I am so glad and happy to be out, way out of that religion. By the way, although the WTBTS is a publishing company, it is also responsible for everything printed in those books and other literature printed by it company, that it is responsible for everything it so called "spiritually" feeds millions of people through its publications. So, yes, I hold the "society" responsible, at least for a very large part of the words and actions of Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere. I know it got me hooked, a very vulnerable and gullible person when it 'got' me, but it hooked me just the same.
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minimus
Pork Chop, Mind control doe not work on everyone in the same way. That's pretty obvious. It's similar to hypnotism. Some are more succeptible than others. Just because 10 persons don't get hypnotized but only 2 do, it doesn't prove that a person can't be put under the spell........Gary, this is not about trying to excuse your responsibilities. It's about realizing that SOME persons do things because of the effect that the ORGANIZATION which is made of PEOPLE not binderies,has upon them. To refuse to recognise this, after hearing so many testimonies, is beyond me......Oh well.
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undercover
To me, the mind control line is just an excuse, like the devil made me do it. I don't buy it. GaryB
At the same time, you could say that you don't believe in mind control because you don't want to admit that someone else controlled you.
Makes for interesting debate if nothing else, huh?
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garybuss
Uc, Yes it makes interesting debate.
If mind control does not control the free will of the Witness people, and if it does not control their beliefs, obviously they have disunity of beliefs even on the administrative level. If they did not, there would never be new beliefs issued or apostates censured. If it does not control their behaviors, and obviously it does not by the thousands of testimonies, what does it control?
If the proof of mind control is a Witness saying they go to meetings because they are afraid of dying at armageddon, to me, that's no different than a Catholic person saying they go to Mass because they are afraid of going to hell when they die. It's just religious superstition, not hypnosis.
If Witnessism is a cult because they use fear tactics (education), then why is ex-Witnessism not a cult too? We say (education) don't become a Witness because you will be hypnotized. It's just the other side of the same coin. This thread is a mini cult. It has it's own leader, it's doctrine, it's system or rewards and punishments. Disagreement with the leader is discouraged.
On to page 8 and 9 GaryB -
undercover
This thread is a mini cult. It has it's own leader, it's doctrine, it's system or rewards and punishments. Disagreement with the leader is discouraged.
The Cult of Minimus! LOL Point taken, but Minimus has no real control
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heathen
garybus --- I think the WT made a profound point when they stated that mankind was created with a disire to find a higher power and that this desire is being manipulated by evil spirits so that they can direct the form of worship they crave toward them . It's not hard to prove that due to the countless forms of religion in the world and most of which are based on superstition .There have been many religionists who have preyed on the fact that people can be willingly manipulated by something that is inherited in all of us .I don't care if you worship a rock but what if someday someone came to you and said the rock talked to me and presto you can no longer worship the rock without first following all the rules that were only disclosed to me ? You know that you love the rock but the rock has never spoken to you . I think you might find yourself in a situation where you now have found a fellow worshipper and can be coerced into believing there may be something to it . Just out of curiosity you want to find out if the rock will ever talk to you so you begin to follow all the rules that another human has imposed on you . The rock of course never talks to but you think that following the rules aren't that bad so you continue to follow the rules because now you have family and friends involved and of course the rock told the other guy that you would die a horrible death if you ever changed your mind . So there we have it mind control.
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garybuss
Heathen, Like Kissing Hank's Ass?
John:
"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary." Mary:
Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us." Me:
"Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?" John:
"If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you." Me:
"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?" John:
"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass." Me:
"That doesn't make any sense. Why..." Mary:
"Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?" Me:
"Well maybe, if it's legit, but..." John:
"Then come kiss Hank's ass with us." Me:
"Do you kiss Hank's ass often?" Mary:
"Oh yes, all the time..." Me:
"And has He given you a million dollars?" John:
"Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town." Me:
"So why don't you just leave town now?" Mary:
"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you." Me:
"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?" John:
"My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money." Me:
"Haven't you talked to her since then?" John:
"Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it." Me:
"So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?" Mary:
"Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street." Me:
"What's that got to do with Hank?" John:
"Hank has certain 'connections.'" Me:
"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game." John:
"But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit of you." Me:
"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..." Mary:
"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank." Me:
"Then how do you kiss His ass?" John:
"Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on." Me:
"Who's Karl?" Mary:
"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times." Me:
"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?" John:
"Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
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minimus
First, I was told that I had no support out there and seemed on my own. Now. I'm the leader of a cult! LOL LOL LOL.....For every person that you say feels they're not under or were never under JW mind control, I'll show you the same amount that will disagree. It seems that this thread has more that disagree with you than not......Maybe it's not that way when you post your views on Randy's site.....btw, would ya like to join the CULT of MINIMUS???