Just saying there has never been any 'winners' in war! After all war is calculated in losses. ;-)
So ... Russia and Nato at war? Should we be worried?
by Simon 68 Replies latest social current
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Greener
We should be worried for sure because of the Obama Aministration foreign policy and weakness.
We have gotten to this point because of the laissez faire attitude of the Obama Administration with this region. It has been Obamas policy to diminish US strength and influence in the region and give it up to Russia, and Iran with the vacuum that Obama created with the lack of any US leadership.
Obama has been projecting US weakness with their enemies and their allies in the region. The Obama administration foreign policy has created the massive Syrian refugee crisis by not having followed through with the line Obama drew. Where was the huge Obama concern for the Syrians who were victims of Assad and ISIS when Obama backed off the line in the sand and allowed ISIS to gain territory and Assad barrel bomb his own people?
From the beginning, one can argue that the US Obama Kerry Clinton foreign policy created ISIS, DAESH etc whatever you may want to call it.
Obama, drew a line in the sand with Assad and didn't follow through on the chemical weapons usage on the Syrian people. It is Obama who called ISIS as the JV team, completely underestimating the terror group. It was Obama who decided to not leave a residual US force in Iraq and not get a status of forces agreement there for political reasons. It was Obama who says that climate change is the greatest threat to world peace. It was Obama who called US policy in Libya and Somalia and Yemen a huge success. It was Obama who said on the same day of the Paris attacks, that ISIS was contained in Syria and Iraq. It was Obama who called the Paris attacks only a "set back". It was John Kerry who said that the Charlie Hebdo attacks had a rationale behind it, and then had to back off his remarks.
It was Hillary Clinton and Obama who crafted US foreign policy in the middle east, and who continue to downplay the seriousness of the current situation.
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LoveUniHateExams
Russia and Nato at war? Should we be worried? - Turkey shooting down a Russian jet for violating Turkish airspace is certainly a cause for concern. As is Turkey's support for Islamist rebels and its lax borders, guaranteeing Muslims a safe passage to Islamic State territory.
How worried should we be? Can't this be sorted out diplomatically? I expect it can be.
I certainly hope so.
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Greener
Perceived US/NATO weakness invites Russian aggression. Obama cancelled the Eastern European missile defense. Obama and NATOs tepid response to Russian aggression in Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea. Russias brazen overflights near Alaska, England the Arctic?
USA failing to support their main ally in the region.. Israel. Agreeing to a terrible nuclear deal that gives Iran a nuclear weapon in 15 years? Providing the greatest/largest state sponsor of terror with $150 billion as part of this deal?? This is US and western strength and resolve? US giving the cold shoulder to Pres. Assisi of Egypt. The only Muslim leader in the region who has the courage to call for a reformation of their religion and call out radical clerics in his own country? The US fails to provide Egypt with the weapons it needs to fight ISIS in the Sinai? Who may Egypt turn to now for help?? GUESS.
I mean the list can go on and on and on. BTW wasn't it a terrible Republican candidate who first framed the current scenario as a prelude to a world war?
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Simon
one can argue that the US Obama Kerry Clinton foreign policy created ISIS, DAESH etc whatever you may want to call it.
You could argue it. But we all know the current mess in Iraq is ultimately down to the abysmal failed policies of Bush & his cronies - a war with no planned end. All those lives for nothing (well, not nothing - they got some sweet and lucrative contracts out of it).
It was Hillary Clinton and Obama who crafted US foreign policy in the middle east, and who continue to downplay the seriousness of the current situation.
You should be nicer to the current and next president. Ouch, it must sting that the Republican party is thrashing about like a dying fish right now.
I really hope Trump or Carson get the nomination. It will be hilarious seeing Hillary tear them to pieces and the GOP completely implode. Unless Bush can "fix it" again ...
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Greener
Your darling liar Hillary.., may not make it to the election if she is indicted for breaking numerous US statutes regarding destroying classified information and lying about all of this. As you know, she is currently under FBI investigation. Didn't Hillary and Kerry support and vote for the Iraq war while they were senators??
Whether you like it or not, Obama and his lefties own all of this. They could have kept a residual US force in Iraq, enough to deter Isis, but Obama and Hillary chose not to because of left wing political opinions such as yours. And Obama has changed course in Afghanistan. The US will leave a residual force there, instead of throwing up their arms and blaming Bush and allowing Isis to spread even more.
Well when Hillary is indicted, you'll be left with the Commie socialist Sanders..a caricature of western European socialisms failures....oh..I forgot..you can't vote in any US elections. Tisk...tisk..too bad. Marco Rubio is wipe out the Democrats.
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Vidiot
I'm still scratching my head as to just what Russia's long-term goal is in invading all these little former Soviet countries and their neighbors.
Is Putin trying to resurrect the USSR or something?
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LoveUniHateExams
I'm still scratching my head as to just what Russia's long-term goal is
Putin has some problems of Islamic extremism at home in southern Russia. I guess striking hard at Syria is a preemptive measure for Putin, dealing with jihadi bigots in Syria before they come home and bring jihad to Russia.
Putin also has other geopolitical interests in the region. Apparently, Qatar (Sunni) has gas reserves that could benefit Europe. Assad (Alawite, and Putin's ally) wouldn't allow a gas pipe from Qatar to Europe.
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LisaRose
Yes, we should be worried about Russia and NATO but pursuing diplomacy first is not weakness. I voted for Obama because I didn't want a president that would start a war for no reason like Bush did in Iraq, a war that has cost us billions, the lives of many Americans and did nothing to make us safer, in fact it did just the opposite. Obama didn't create ISIS, Bush did.
Its incredible to me that people are so ready to repeat these same mistakes. As tragic as the Paris attacks were, it's 130 people. How many will die if we jump into another stupid war before pursuing every other option? Any response to the threat of ISIS needs to be carefully thought out, and done with the agreement of a coalition of countries, otherwise we will just have another Afghanistan or Iraq. If war is the only solution, then so be it, but not before every other option is pursued. The issue with Turkey and Russia illustrates how volatile this situation is, we need to tread carefully or we will end up in WW3.
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Tornintwo
This whole situation in Syria makes you wonder why Assad won't put his hands up and say 'I messed up, let someone else have a try'...
In my dreamworld I imagine a solution where Assad calls for free democratic elections in say a year's time, in which he declares he will NOT run, declare a ceasefire and bring the peacekeepers in and a temporary government, establish safe zones for refugees. The genuine parties should want to take part in the political process so then the only ones left fighting should be the nutty psychopath ISIS etc which should then be easier to deal with (with the other two parties on ceasefire). Okay I am sure this is too simplistic and idealistic but maybe it could work....
What stands in the way of this?.... ASSAD will never step down because this conflict is about GAS supplies to Europe. Russia doesn't want to lose it's monopoly on gas to Qatar etc who want to lay pipelines through Syria, Assad won't allow the pipelines, any Western backed government would, Russia can't let that happen....