by Kelley959 178 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
scholar:
Does this comment indicate your skill in linguistics and in Hebrew and Greek?
😂 Actually, the order of the chapters of Jeremiah in the Greek Septuagint (with the proclamations against individual nations inserted between the first and second halves of what we call chapter 25) makes it even more clear that the 70 years applied to all the surrounding nations serving Babylon and definitely not just ‘Jewish exile’.
587 is correct, so is 607 and so is 1914. Why do you all make is so difficult?
Jerusalem was destroyed in 587.
Zedekiah was king for 11 years starting in 598.
Jehoikim was king for 11 years starting around610.
Dan 1:1 says "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it." And Daniel was taken captive.
The 3rd year of Jehoiakim was 607 That started the 70 years of captivity that ended in 537. That also started the 7 times when the kings sitting on the throne of Jehovah would cease being sovereign rulers. That would last 2520 years or 7 times. And that would end in 1914 when Jesus would be sovereign king on Jehovah's throne in heavenly Jerusalem.
If you enjoy debates, this thread is a great one. We used to have regular long threads on this subject.... I thought those posters had all moved on.
Personally, these mathematical speculations “ do my head in “ but by all means carry on if you wish. My take on 607- 1914 is simply this..
The vast majority of respected archaeologists accept 587 bce as the date . And it is archaeology that has to be used.
The year 1914 was 107 years ago and we still await the kingdom...that is untenable and must be wrong
The whole thing came from the Adventist’s . The WT has repudiated all the rest of their teaching, why not that?
Rattigan350:
Jehoikim was king for 11 years starting around610. ... The 3rd year of Jehoiakim was 607 That started the 70 years of captivity that ended in 537.
Not quite. 2 Kings 23:36 gives Jehoiakim's reign as 11 years (counting his accession year), and we know his last year was 598 BCE. So his 3rd year using Nisan-based dating (not counting his accession year per the Babylonian and subsequent custom) was 605 BCE (up until early 604 BCE prior to Nisan), which is when Nebuchadnezzar returned to the area to demand tribute after he claimed the throne.
The 70 years (of nations serving Babylon, not Jewish exile) ran from Babylon's conquest of Assyria in 609 BCE (conquest of Haran following the earlier conquest of Nineveh in 612) until Cyrus' conquest of Babylon in 539 BCE.The Jews returned in 538 BCE, not 537. This was during the first year of Cyrus with temple construction beginning in 537, as confirmed by Josephus.
And that would end in 1914 when Jesus would be sovereign king on Jehovah's throne in heavenly Jerusalem.
Entirely wrong. 1914 is based on superstitious nonsense and nothing more (and the fact that something was 'supposed' to happen suddenly in or after October of 1914 is generally ignored by JWs and they just focus on the fact that 'something' significant happened in that year). The context of Luke 21:24 refers to a period that had not started in Jesus' time, and the duration of the 'appointed times of the nations' (when Jerusalem was 'trampled') is identified in Revelation as 3.5 times, 42 months and 1260 days, all being 3.5 years, and refers to the period from the Roman response to the Jewish revolt in 66 CE culminating in Jerusalem's destruction in 70 CE.
Thanks for the information that you have provided on this subject Jeffro
When you closely examine the events concerning the ancient Israelites of that era and that of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, it clarifies the difference of servitude, desolation and exile.
There was a lot of historical subsequent of events which happened to the inhabitants of Jerusalem by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar from the beginning of servitude to him right to their return from exile which JWS are dishonestly dismissive about .
The year 1914 was 107 years ago and we still await the kingdom...that is untenable and must be wrong
I have to agree.
The clock started ticking when the Great Crowd was identified. In order to have any prospect of surviving the great tribulation, those people needed to at least live to see it. Otherwise they were not even prospective members of the Great Crowd.
Although I admire Neil's tenacity after a fashion, the defense of 1914 only exacerbates this problem.
The calculation of 1914 through Pyramidology and how they use Daniel chapter 4 of 2,520 years, from 607 BC until 1914 are really acts of apostasy according to scripture.
Thats why most Christian based faiths have not done so, but the leaders of the WTS were more pressed to sell literature than adhere to scripture.
Jeffro
Actually, the order of the chapters of Jeremiah in the Greek Septuagint (with the proclamations against individual nations inserted between the first and second halves of what we call chapter 25) makes it even more clear that the 70 years applied to all the surrounding nations serving Babylon and definitely not just ‘Jewish exile’.
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Nonsense: If this is really the case then you should be able to tabulate historically when each of those nations served Babylon. The only nation that we have a precise history of Babylonian servitude is Judah as correctly prophesied by Jeremiah.
The use of the LXX is valuable but it is important to compare that with the main or principal text- Masoretic Text when it comes to any historical analysis and exegesis.
Rocketman123
When you closely examine the events concerning the ancient Israelites of that era and that of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, it clarifies the difference of servitude, desolation and exile.
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Historically and theologically there is no difference between the three elements of the 70 years namely exile-desolation -servitude which is an exact description of what Jeremiah foretold, witnessed by Daniel and Ezekiel, confirmed by the historians Ezra and Josephus.
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There was a lot of historical subsequent of events which happened to the inhabitants of Jerusalem by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar from the beginning of servitude to him right to their return from exile which JWS are dishonestly dismissive about .
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Exactly and that is what you should pay attention to that detailed history in the Bible and not try to harmonize with NB Chronology.
What JWS have done is select only historical information that suits their 70 year prophesy and totally dismiss everything else from archeological evidence and even the bible, its really an act of intellectual dishonesty.
When one avoids an honest, deliberate and comprehensive approach to a matter because it may introduce an adverse effect on personally and professionally held views and beliefs.
Intellectual dishonesty is a failure to apply standards of rational evaluation that one is aware of, usually in a self-serving fashion. If one judges others more critically than oneself, that is intellectually dishonest. If one deflects criticism of a friend or ally simply because they are a friend or ally, that is intellectually dishonest.
I dont think JWS even know what that means, this scholar idiot obviously doesn't
True bible scholars know that, I'm sure.
This idiot who comes here calling himself scholar is nothing more than a JWS./Watchtower scholar promoting this organization religious doctrines.
He probably is counting his time here as well, no doubt.
I posted some things which occurred in that region in that era which makes the suggested JWS time table of events ridiculous......
