If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW 99 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Aloe Vera juice has some health benefits. See https://www.healthline.com/health/digestive-health/aloe-vera-juice-acid-reflux for more information.
  
• 

  DarleneGatus

  When I was thinking about whether or not I still believed in a personal God I read a lot of books, including a couple on Biocentrism by Robert Lanza. I think it's possible to be spiritual and ethical but not need a personal God for wish fulfillment and to judge everyone. I have to admit that the first few years away from the religion I did not want to look at a Bible or hear scriptures quoted. So yes, DisillusionedJW, I think researching science and philosophy is a good idea when you are rebuilding your worldview after leaving JW.borg
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  For some sources of information of how abiogenesis took place (or could have taken place) see the following web pages.
  
  - https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/06/02/abio-j02.html (this is of a socialist web site). The article is called "A pair of experiments reveal new details regarding the origin of life on Earth". It says in part the following.
  
  'It has long been hypothesized that the origin of life on Earth involved the evolution of molecules, floating in the “primordial soup” 4 billion years ago, that assembled themselves into structures that self-replicate. Two recently reported research projects bring us closer to an understanding of possible mechanisms by which that took place.
  
  ... the results of these two research projects contribute to the demystification of the origin of life and reinforce our understanding that living things, including humans, do not embody some mysterious “divine spark,” as religion would have it, but instead are the product of natural, scientifically understandable laws of the material world.'
  
  - https://singularityhub.com/2022/04/17/oldest-fossils-yet-suggest-life-on-earth-began-much-earlier-than-we-thought/ . The article in part says the following.
  
  'On an outcrop of exposed volcanic and sedimentary rock on the eastern shores of Hudson Bay in northern Quebec, researchers have unearthed what may be the earliest fossilized life forms ever discovered. These microbial ancestors lived between 3.75 and 4.28 billion years ago, only 300 million years after the Earth formed—a blink of an eye in geologic timescales. If life developed this rapidly on Earth, it suggests that abiogenesis—the process by which non-living matter becomes a living organism—is potentially “easy” to achieve, and life in the universe may be more common than we thought.
  
  ... The researchers are confident that even if they are abiotic, they still “could indicate complex prebiotic forms on early Earth.”
  
  ... The researchers are confident that even if they are abiotic, they still “could indicate complex prebiotic forms on early Earth.” '
  
  - See the two page article which begins at https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/scientists-recreated-classic-origin-of-life-experiment-and-made-a-new-discovery/ . That article mentions that Jeffrey Bada "re-analyzed the original samples" from certain experiments done by Stanley Miller and Bada "found this environment produced 22 amino acids, five amines, and several hydroxylated molecules."
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_L._Bada says that between 1980 and 2009 Bada "was Director of NASA Specialized Center of Research and Training (NSCORT) in Exobiology. ... He and his team also developed a Mars Organic Analyzer (MOA), which is a microfabricated capillary electrophoresis (CE) instrument for sensitive amino acid biomarker analysis."
  
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  The article called "A Skeptic’s Ghost Story:Ghost hunting with science and skepticism" is very good and is located at https://thinkingispower.com/a-skeptics-ghost-story/ .
  
• 

  jhine

  I haven't read through all the original posts and this was probably mentioned.

  The correct , Biblical question is to WHOM would we go ?

  The WT changed it to stress their position of being Jehovah's only mouthpiece on earth.

  Jan
• 

  waton

  When you are hit with excruciating pain of a possible end of life situation, what does wt offer? that you are in a possible replay of the Job saga.? The science outlook: Nature taking its course, the invaders are finally winning, recycling has started.

  in both cases, small comfort. reach for the morphine. provided by:
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Yes jhine the NT Bible (at John 6:68) does say to "whom would we go" and the WT did misapply it as to 'where else are we to go?'. I used the WT phrase (or a paraphrase of it) because I am addressing the issue of what set of beliefs/convictions should JW people (and former JW people) adopt if they cease to believe in the JW form of Christianity and thus end up not believing in Christianity at all and end up not believing in religion at all.

  Most of the people who converted to the JW religion (at least those who were not raised in the religion) did so because they were convinced that all other religions (including all other forms of Christianity) are false. I am encouraging them to accept atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism as truth. I naturally would have become an atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalist, or a deist, prior to age 15 if I had never been raised to believe in religion. I wish I had become an atheist by age 15.
  

  waton, in the situation you provide the WT offers the reassurance that though you will die, you will very likely be resurrected to eternal life on a paradise Earth, or to eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ and Jehovah/YHWH God. Regarding the scientific naturalist point of view you, as it pertains to the situation you mention, are correct. Though it is depressing, it involves acceptance of reality. Some scientific naturalists who are also secular humanists would seek physician-assisted suicide in the situation you mention (if legal for them), rather than to drag out the dying process to its bitter end. Those scientific naturalists who are also secular Buddhists might have better copying skills in dealing with the dying process.

  Rather than adopt a supernaturalistic religious view, and thus a false view, I would rather continue be convinced of the reality of scientific naturalism. If my future dying process is an unbearable miserable one (one in which pain killers and meditation and psychological counseling don't make tolerable) I might choose physician-assisted suicide. Physician-assisted suicide is legal in parts of the USA, including in my very liberal state (at least under state law).

  waton, for me the deciding to be an atheistic scientific naturalist was not primarily about whether it is comforting, but about whether it is true. I am convinced it is true, despite the realization that I am truly a mortal with no chance of eternal life at all.

  Before I became an atheist I met an engineer (who worked at Intel) who had obtained an evangelical theological degree but later became an evolutionist, an atheist, a secular humanist, and a philosophical naturalist. He created a discussion group on meetup.com in which he organized debates between himself and Christians. He tried to convince people of evolution and that there is no God/god. he produced numerous videos. He wrote and self published a book (or booklet) called "Modern Science and Philosophy Destroy Christian Theology". He also became a minister of Humanism and he became a director of one congregation of the Sunday Assembly. Largely due to online discussions I had with one nontheistic ex-Christian in the meetup group I became a nontheist, a naturalist (except that for a year I wasn't sure if a deistic god exists), and a type of secular humanist. A year later became a convinced atheist. The man (Bernie Dehler) who created the discussion group later got a very aggressive form of brain cancer which was terminal (no cure exists for it, none survive from it).

  He looked very sad after getting cancer but (to my knowledge) he remained an atheist and a naturalist to the end of his life. Despite me being well aware of such dire end of life situations I am still an atheistic scientific naturalist.
  
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  For more information about Bernie Dehler see https://www.oregonlive.com/my-portland/2014/10/does_god_exist_debate_on_tue_1.html , SecHummer , and https://archive.org/details/ihavecancerfutureuncertainpart1of2 .
  
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  In my first post of this topic thread I said "why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?" It appears to me that a number of people in Iran are becoming more humanistic minded. See the news article called "The Protests in Iran Have Shaken the Islamic Republic to Its Core". The end of the article says the following.

  ' “The protests these days are in the name of humanity, as opposed to the revolution of 1979 that was in the name of God,” tweeted Mohammadreza Javadi Yeganeh, a professor of sociology at the University of Tehran.

  The 2022 demonstrations are “a social revolution,” Yeganeh added. “The protestors, especially women want to live based on their own understanding, inattentive of what religion says.” '

  That is encouraging to me.
  
• 

  waton

  inattentive of what religion says.

  Ddjw. at their meetings the wt ladies have already achieved that, having most of the microphone time, in defiance of the "lords command" in I Cor. 14. "silent in the congregations of the hole ones"

  If the Iranian revolution spreads to Iraq, the location of Babylon, and then beyond, that would be the fall of male dominated and centered religion.

  Even "Jehavah" beeing able to become whatever whover he wants could comply, becoming a parent, more humane.

  I always balked at the wt's 'man's face' being the picture of love, to me it is my beautiful ladie's faces.