Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast 540 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  How then can it be verified then that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC and who its writer was especially as Dan.1::1 clearly assigns a 6th-century date for its composition and Dan.12:4 clearly states its writer, Daniel? and how can it be verified that the book ha in its 12 chapters in total has anything to do with Jewish persecution and events in the time of the Maccabees?

  And the author of Moby Dick is identified as Ishmael in the opening sentence. Guess that clinches it. 😂 Also, by your ‘reasoning’ the author of Daniel chapter 4 is “clearly” Nebuchadnezzar, not Daniel. 🤦‍♂️

  People who understand and respect context can figure it out and have done so for centuries, including modern scholars, and just as I was able to do in my own independent analysis. I understand why you have difficulty with the concept though.
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  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  Dan.12:4 clearly states its writer, Daniel?

  The ‘book’ referenced in that verse is the one also referenced at Daniel 12:1, which is purportedly a list of survivors, and not the book of Daniel. And the verse doesn’t name Daniel as its author either.
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  And the author of Moby Dick is identified as Ishmael in the opening sentence. Guess that clinches it. 😂 Also, by your ‘reasoning’ the author of Daniel chapter 4 is “clearly” Nebuchadnezzar, not Daniel. 🤦‍♂️

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  By your reasoning the opening words o Dan 1:1 clearly identify a 6th century BC historical setting as does Dan 7:1; 8:1;9:1; 10:1; 11:1; which all of those texts proves beyond any shadow of doubt that this is a book of the 6th century dealing with rulers of the NB and Persian Periods.thus debunking the Maccabean Thesis.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 

  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  By your reasoning the opening words o Dan 1:1 clearly identify a 6th century BC historical setting

  Huh?! Have you totally lost the plot? Your claim isn’t at all supported by ‘my reasoning’. The opening words of Daniel identity a setting, but there’s nothing about the statement that confirms when it was actually written. You don’t understand that a later writer could have access to historical details of an earlier period? What is wrong with you?
• 

  Phizzy

  Anyone who uses an Ad Hominem attack has lost the argument, "Scholar" please note.
• 

  ozziepost

  Phizzy:

  Am i watching the wrong screen? Who made the ad hominen attack?

  OK, pass the popcorn
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  Disillusioned JW

  Jeffro, scholar presumes that the writer of the book of Daniel is sincere in everything he wrote in the book of Daniel (and not writing a story intended to be thought of as fiction to some extent). scholar presumes that all of the books of the Bible are honestly written. Likewise the WTS claims that all of the books of the Bible are honestly written; after all they claim that all of the books of the Bible are Jehovah God's word.
  
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Huh?! Have you totally lost the plot? Your claim isn’t at all supported by ‘my reasoning’. The opening words of Daniel identity a setting, but there’s nothing about the statement that confirms when it was actually written. You don’t understand that a later writer could have access to historical details of an earlier period? What is wrong with you?

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  The opening words of Daniel sets the historical setting for the book which along with the other dates given are of historical events not in the 2nd century but in the sixth century.

  There is not a single shred of evidence that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC but is simply a theory cleverly designed to discredit prophecy. The six datable events anchor the entire book in the 6th century BC for any other claim is simply nonsense.

  scholar JW
• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  Jeffro scholar presumes that the writer of the book of Daniel is sincere in everything he wrote in the book of Daniel (and not writing a story intended to be thought of as fiction to some extent). scholar presumes that all of the books of the Bible are honestly written. Likewise the WTS claims that all of the books of the Bible are honestly written; after all they claim that all of the books of the Bible are Jehovah God's word.
  

  Uh… yeah… quite aware of his position. I generally consider him too far gone as a Watch Tower Society shill to get through to him, but I point out his obvious errors for the benefit of other readers (and for my own amusement).

  But even to the extent that he claims to accept what the Bible says, JW dogma trumps the Bible where required. For example the Bible’s stated order of events is that the 70 years end, then the Jews repent, then attention is given to their return (Jeremiah 29:10-14), but ‘scholar’, parroting the Watch Tower Society, insists that 70 years ends only one they’ve arrived home, making it redundant to then ‘give attention to their return’.
• 

  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  The six datable events anchor the entire book in the 6th century BC for any other claim is simply nonsense.

  Identifying datable events in a work only confirms that the work was written some time later than those events. And because Daniel has obvious references to events during the Seleucid period (as is explicitly accepted in JW dogma), the time of writing is thereby identified as being around 164 BCE. Setting aside the exaggerated end times claims about a hypothetical future, there are no details in Daniel requiring knowledge beyond around 164 BCE. (Daniel was in circulation by the end of that century so writing couldn’t have been much later than 164 BCE either.)

  Christian re-interpretations that some of the elements refer to the Roman Empire, to Jesus, or to the modern era are incorrect and all the elements in Daniel can be identified with events up to the 2nd century BCE.

  Daniel’s dream and visions