Simple Question Re 1914 (page 31)

scholar

Jeffro

Identifying datable events in a work only confirms that the work was written some time later than those events. And because Daniel has obvious references to events during the Seleucid period (as is explicitly accepted in JW dogma), the time of writing is thereby identified as being around 164 BCE. Setting aside the exaggerated end times claims about a hypothetical future, there are no details in Daniel requiring knowledge beyond around 164 BCE. (Daniel was in circulation by the end of that century so writing couldn’t have been much later than 164 BCE either.)

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False. Identifiable datable events confirm the date of composition unless plainly stated otherwise for that then becomes history. The book of Daniel does not in its entirety suggest events of the Seleucid period therefore in such absence of datable ents then the evidence as presented by the six datable events prove a 6th-century composition as confirmed by other external lines of evidence.

The only section in Daniel that is interpreted to refer to the Seleucids is with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19 .

Please provide direct evidence for your belief that the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC!

scholar JW

scholar

Jeffro

I note your reference to your website and the pages discussing Daniel however you make the claim that Daniel is of the 2nd century BC rather than of the sixth century century but you do not provide any evidence for your late date of composition so please list your facts.keeping in mind that that Daniel in his 11th chapter only is applicable to the Seleucids.

I await your evidence or proof.

scholar JW

scholar

ozziepost

Now that you are a converted Anglican thus enjoying the rich fruitage of Bible knowledge and learning characteristic of the intellectual life within the Anglican diocese of Sydney or North Sydney could you give your learned opinion on the date of composition of the book of Daniel? Please!

scholar JW

ozziepost

Good morning scholar !

😊

scholar

ozziepost

Very good morning to you!

scholar JW

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

I note your reference to your website and the pages discussing Daniel however you make the claim that Daniel is of the 2nd century BC rather than of the sixth century century but you do not provide any evidence for your late date of composition so please list your facts.keeping in mind that that Daniel in his 11th chapter only is applicable to the Seleucids.
I await your evidence or proof.

You already answered your own question. 😂 “Daniel [refers] to the Seleucids … with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19”

Also, the page you reference acknowledges that some parts of Daniel include elements from older folktales.

Whilst all the chapters of Daniel allude to the Syrian oppression under Antiochus IV Epiphanes with Babylon used as an allegory, chapters 2 and 7 to 12 make obvious references to rulers up to the Seleucid period.

The sad fact is that you actually agree that there are references to the Seleucid period (and, erroneously, beyond) throughout Daniel, but your ‘explanation’ is that Daniel was magical.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

Identifiable datable events confirm the date of composition unless plainly stated otherwise for that then becomes history.

This is some of the most plainly stupid reasoning you could utter. I could write something right now that makes reference to past events and no current events, and by your reasoning, it would have to be concluded that it was written at the time of the events mentioned.

scholar

Jeffro

You already answered your own question. 😂 “Daniel [refers] to the Seleucids … with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19”

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Nice try but such reasoning does not get you off the hook for Dan. 11 refers to future events involving a future battle between two kings- north and south which in verses 5-19 applies to the Seleucid period. The rest of Daniel refers to historical events in the 6th century continuing right up to our day.

The challenge for you is show evidence that all of Daniel, the entire 12 chapters refers or was written in the 2nd century.

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Also, the page you reference acknowledges that some parts of Daniel include elements from older folktales.

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Opinion, not fact!

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Whilst all the chapters of Daniel allude to the Syrian oppression under Antiochus IV Epiphanes with Babylon used as an allegory, chapters 2 and 7 to 12 make obvious references to rulers up to the Seleucid period.

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Prove it!

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The sad fact is that you actually agree that there are references to the Seleucid period (and, erroneously, beyond) throughout Daniel, but your ‘explanation’ is that Daniel was magical.

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WT publications since 1958 have always maintained that a small section of Daniel namely ch.11 describes the Seleucid Period as history by means of prophecy.

Your opinion and interpretation' is 'magical' or illusional

scholar JW

ozziepost

Hi scholar,

i was ‘reminiscing’ about the Warchtower’s Daniel book that was studied way back when and I seemed to recall posting a review of it. Sadly can’t find it now, it’s not included in the “Best of Ozziepost” section of the forum, so maybe I’m dreaming !

What I did find is this thread:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/96633/you-ready-this-weeks-book-study

Gotta say, Daniel doesn’t get much of my attention these days, I don’t recall that we covered much of it in PTC.

Cheers,

Ozzie 🍷

scholar

Jeffro

This is some of the most plainly stupid reasoning you could utter. I could write something right now that makes reference to past events and no current events, and by your reasoning, it would have to be concluded that it was written at the time of the events mentioned.

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This is the case because Daniel contains chronological data which fixes the time of composition as shown by the 6 references.

scholar JW

Simple Question Re 1914

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