You don’t see it, Van. Nothing more I can say.
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast 540 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Fisherman,
"You don't see it, Van."
You are right, I do not see what is not there.
I only see what is there
And 1914 is not there. It is only there to those who are willing to accept a man-made organization's convoluted assumption based non-scholarly speculations. And that's the truth.
"Nothing more I can say"
Yes, there is something more you can say. You can tell me what Jesus' hearers would have prayed about the Sabbath and about winter to mitigate the conditions of their escape and then what you are literally praying today about the poetic Sabbath Day and poetic Winter. What exactly are you praying?
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waton
to mitigate the conditions of their escape
fisherman, yeah. how about the escape of the anointed ones in Jesus's day, living to the ripe age of 100+, but
the predicted death of the current anointed wt generation at the outset of the great tribulation. ? passing away before all these things have passed?
dont give us a pass on that one !! even if wt instructions are not to discuss doctrinal matters.
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scholar
Vanderhoven7
And 1914 is not there. It is only there to those who are willing to accept a man-made organization's convoluted assumption based non-scholarly speculations. And that's the truth.
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False for 1914 is right there at the very centre of the Olivet Discourse by means of the 'Gentile Times' in Luke 21:24 and the very fact of the Parousia and its theological significance. The book of Revelation with the Four Horsemen which nicley parallel those significant events discussed earlier in the Olivet Discourse with such a Revelation of future things come in the 'Lord's Day which began in 1914 CE
scholar JW
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scholar
Jeffro
And 1914 is not there. It is only there to those who are willing to accept a man-made organization's convoluted assumption based non-scholarly speculations. And that's the truth.
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Luke 21:24 with its 'Gentile Times' puts 1914 right there in the centre of Lukan Eschatology and it is there because one can easily discern the dual application of the Olivet Discourse based on a literal fulfilment in the first century then telescoping into a much larger and future fulfilment characteristic of events evident from 1914 CE.nicely described by A.T Robertson as a painting with the artist by skilful perspective gives varying views. Refer Word Pictures In New Testament, Vol 1, pp.187-8, 1930, Broadman Press,Nashville, Tennessee.
scholar JW
scholar JW
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scholar
Jeffro
The fact that some things they expected to happen didn’t happen isn’t evidence that it will happen at a later time. They were just wrong.
It’s also amusing that you recognise that the ‘celestial’ signs were supposed to happen after the ‘tribulation’ but ignore the fact that Jesus’ presence is supposed to happen after those ‘signs’.
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Events that are expected come at the appropriate time and not the time of our choosing and the events that did occur give us confidence that future, expected events will occur at the appointed time.
Jesus' presence or Parousia is described by many events which proved that he was present marked by its definite beginning as King ruling from the appointed time of 1914 CE to be climaxed by the Great Tribulation with the coming of the Son of Man for such events are built on the earlier fulfilment of prophecies or signs pertaining to Jerusalem. In short, the events of the First century in response to that first of three questions undergo the future fulfilment relating to Jesus' answer to the two questions in Matt. 24:3.
scholar JW
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Jeffro
'scholar':
Jeffro
And 1914 is not there. It is only there to those who are willing to accept a man-made organization's convoluted assumption based non-scholarly speculations. And that's the truth.
Not sure why you're attributing someone else's comment to me. Anyway...
Luke 21:24 with its 'Gentile Times' puts 1914 right there in the centre of Lukan Eschatology and it is there because one can easily discern the dual application of the Olivet Discourse based on a literal fulfilment in the first century then telescoping into a much larger and future fulfilment characteristic of events evident from 1914 CE.
Entirely wrong. The grammar of the original text of Luke 21:24 indicates a period that hadn't started yet, and Revelation 11:2 identifies the period as 3.5 years. It has no association with anything in Daniel.
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Jeffro
'scholar':
Events that are expected come at the appropriate time and not the time of our choosing and the events that did occur give us confidence that future, expected events will occur at the appointed time.
This is simply magical thinking.
Jesus' presence or Parousia is described by many events which proved that he was present marked by its definite beginning as King ruling from the appointed time of 1914 CE to be climaxed by the Great Tribulation with the coming of the Son of Man for such events are built on the earlier fulfilment of prophecies or signs pertaining to Jerusalem. In short, the events of the First century in response to that first of three questions undergo the future fulfilment relating to Jesus' answer to the two questions in Matt. 24:3.
You're just spouting JW indoctrination. But as far as what the Bible actually says, Jesus' 'parousia' is expressly described as only being after the 'tribulation', and it has nothing at all to do with 1914.
Nothing that actually happened in 1799, 1874, 1878 or 1914 was actually relevant to any stories in the Bible. Rutherford subsequently ditched Russell's claims about 1799, 1874 and 1878 to focus on 1914, but all of it remains superstitious nonsense. A war began in 1914, and the Watch Tower Society has latched on to that ever since, but as far as what Russell had actually 'predicted' (and current JW dogma), it was an entirely different thing and in the wrong month.
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Vanderhoven7
<<1914 is right there at the very centre of the Olivet Discourse>>
False! 1914 is nowhere to be found in the Olivet Discourse.
So Scholar, do you bring a jacket with you when you work on your roof? Or do you plan to disobey Jesus and run into the house to get your jacket when fleeing time comes?
Do you, like Fisherman, pray that your flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day? Why or why not?
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scholar
Jeffro
Nope. No Bible citations to be found there. You have provided speculative commentary about an interpretation that contradicts the plain reading of the relevant scriptures
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You only have to read those pericopes that deal with or mention the 'chosen ones' and the part that they play in the outworking of the Olivet Discourse. The Olivet Discourse has and will continue to be the subject of interpretation but ours is better or superior to your interpretation because we see that it is to a large part -eschatological especially from vs 29 ff in Matt 24 notwithstanding that from vss. 4-28 has noth a dual fulfilment in prophecy and history.
scholar JW