Introduction - Any Believers? (page 14)

LV101

OUTLAW - YOU made my day - hysterical!

Thanks!

jacobm

Hi Believer,

I do believe in God. I have examined both sides of the atheist/theist argument and find that the argument for the existence of an intelligent creator (God) is overwhelming.

I believe that by using deduction alone, we can be more than certain of this. The very first question should be: Did someone create the universe? Even Richard Dawkins admitted that a likely scenario was that an Alien race planted life here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-w26yhZ6M

The first question should NOT be: "is Speciation a fact".

May I suggest the book "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"? Of course, I feel that you should also examine the atheist/agnostic side of the argument as well

Cofty, how in the heck did you end up an evangelical after JWs? Did you turn to a particular ist or ism? Calvinist? Did you attend church?

jacobm

Cofty,

I have said this before but here it goes again:

Cofty as a born-in JW - Spends time telling everyone they are wrong and he is right.

Cofty as an Evangelical - Spends time knowing hes right, and likely surrounding himself with people that believe just like him, and possibly spending a lot of time telling others how they are wrong (maybe on a forum!).

Cofty as an Atheist/Agnostic believer in Speciation aka Evolution - Spends a heck of a lot of time on an EXJW forum, believing he has it right this time, and telling others how they are wrong.

Notice a pattern? I'm sure 3rd times a charm. This time its different because he bases his beliefs on facts. I wonder if he said the same thing back when he was a JW/Evangelical.

Love ya Cofty

Giles Gray

Believer

"This 6th sense is how we perceive spiritual things. The 5 senses are objective and can be authenticated in a way that others readily accept, i.e., they can taste, touch, see, hear, smell it too. But the 6th sense is subjective. It is a personal understanding or epiphany or revelation."

The 5 primary senses are all of them fallible and can easily deceive the mind. The '6th sense', however, is notoriously inaccurate and misleading. How can you distinguish, with any certainty, the difference between a supposed revelation, from a very convincing psychotic delusion, when the conviction for both is the same?

Believer

"One person cannot prove their personal spiritual revelations to another. He may be able to articulate it, but authenticating it can only occur if the other person is also able to perceive it through their 6th sense. But a spiritual revelation is just as real to a person who uses that sense as are the things perceived with the animal senses"

So if someone has an experience that feels real to them, does it prove that it is real?

Believer

" if Satan wrote the bible, that would be proof that God and other supernatural beings exist. Right?"

Not at all. That's an assumption based on the 6th sense. What's stopping Satan from inventing fictitious characters for his story book, like George Lucas inventing Darth Vader?

startingover

The ridicule card, the card never played by atheists.

OUTLAW

"I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"

...............................................

startingover

The Dear Believer I shared early on has again been ignored by believers. I think it really lays out the problem. I'm sure all believers on here believe in the Bible God. I just wonder how many of you have taken time to check out where that god came from.

Myself, I'm not going to say there wasn't someone or something that started it, but I will say this. I am absolutely sure it was not the Bible god.

cofty

Notice a pattern? - jacobm

Yes. Let me explain it to you.

I was raised to believe that faith is a good thing. To believe things on insufficient evidence was how to please an invisible deity.

When I worked out that the Watchtower were lying to us I held on to that fundamental belief regarding faith, just as you have done - and all the other ex-JW believers. So I held on to belief in a creator god and in the bible as his inspired word. I trusted I was saved through the sacrificial death of Jesus who died for my sins. I attended a UK Baptist church for about 9 years and ended up on the preaching team. I preached the message of the cross with sincerity.

Ten years later I found a reason, and the courage, to hold my faith in god up to genuine scrutiny. Over a period of some considerable time and study I concluded that all supernatural claims are no more than wishful thinking and superstition.

Since then I have adopted an evidence-based view of the world. To be rational means that our beliefs must be in proportion to the evidence. Rejecting the god of christian theism and accepting the fact of evolution are natural consequences of being a rational person.

The difference between you and me is that you are familiar with just one side of the debate. I have lived both. I will never trade the amazing wonders of reality for religious superstitions.

Bonsai

I actually, come to think of it, AM a believer. I believe that our mother earth is the closest thing we have that fits the definition of god. Without her we don't exist. She is beautiful and has all the attributes of man: gentle, harsh, violent, thrilling, awe inspiring, etc. Why don't we worry more about believing in and healing our earth before we wade into whether or not there is an intelligent being above us in the universe? I think any god worth a darn can respect the atheist/theist who treats this planet (and the things on it) with dignity and respect.

2+2=5

I believe God is good, wise, loving, and the first cause of everything. I believe his purpose in creating man is for man to learn to become like God experientially (perfect as he is perfect). And I believe that our life on earth is just the first leg of a long journey Godward.

Ah, sounds like faith to me. It's nice to have baseless convictions that provide an alternative to the inevitable eternal death that awaits us. I am not really into make believe style stories but whatever floats your boat. If I were to have faith, I would think of some really cool shit to believe in.... afterlife would be awesome.

The Australian aborigines have some amazing 'Dreamtime' legends which are extremely old. Not a bad alternative to the more traditional God has a plan, soul-afterlife stuff most people seem to go for. The Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime legends are much like the Flying Spaghetti Monster stories of today, only 50 000 years old. My children enjoy that type of cultural-religious story telling more so than the Bible. The bible can get harsh at times for small children, with the incest and genocide, raping, general killing and fucking that takes place throughout.

Introduction - Any Believers?

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