Hopefully our resident spies are sending this info far and wide. The RC would probably love to have this. Russia too.
Does that sound mean? Don't worry, lying, delusional Pedo-protecting cults don't deserve any sympathy.
DD
NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM
by apocalypse 103 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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JW_Rogue
I would fill it out at the kingdom hall so everyone sees you and your witnesses signing the document. Just never give it to the Elders or your doctor. Just keep "forgetting to bring it" eventually they will forget as well. Remember that these documents only come into play when you are unable to answer for yourself. If you're conscious and able to speak for yourself than you can change your mind at any time. -
apocalypse
JW-Rogue
We'll see if it can work out like you say.
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StephaneLaliberte
I think I have the perfect answer for that one:
If an elder, or anyone pushes you to sign the card and give them a sample, ask them to read the 8th statement:
STATEMENT OF WITNESSES: The person who signed this document did so in my presence. He or she appears to be of sound mind and free from duress, fraud or undue influence. I am 18 years of age or older.
Then say: According to that statement, you should hand me that piece of paper and let me do what ever I please with it, never suggesting further actions on my part. I know you want that statement to be truthful and not a lie, or a half truth, so, I expect your full collaboration to leave the matter with me and not pressure me in any way.
If for some reason this derails all the way through to your disfellowshipping (which would actually surprise me), than you have an amazing legal case on your hands. Especially if you record every communication you have with them.
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LevelThePlayingField
StephaneL
Good point, but yeah, I really doubt that the disfellowshipping thing would ever come into the picture over a blood card, because how could they ever say this was a gross sin, they couldn't and won't. But they could make a person's life rough though, like taking away privileges and the like.
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bafh
This isn't new, the Blood Cards have always said those things, at least in Washington. It varies by state what they can and cannot say, so maybe the rules in your state changed?
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StephaneLaliberte
Bafh, you are right, the "no duress/undue-influence" statement was there before, however, you could easily sign it and throw it away. This is exactly what I did for many years when I was in.
This time, its different: The brothers and sisters receive the instruction to make at least three (3) photocopies: Two for the two witnesses that signed it and one for the secretary of the congregation. In addition, to ensure absolute compliance, they even request access to your medical records! Hence, the "no duress/undue-influence" statement cannot possibly be true today!
Now, how could not signing this ADD derail all the way to disfellowshipping? Imagine this: The secretary of the congregation repeatedly ask a brother for his photocopies: "Don't take it wrong brother, but it feels like you don't want to make photocopies. We have a photocopier right here in the hall, I can help you with this. This arrangement is made to protect you. Why would you reject it? Do you at least keep your card with you?" With unceasing questioning, the brother could become exasperated and tell the Elder that he doesn't believe in the blood doctrine and won't carry the card, nor make photocopies. With loving kindness, the Elder than visit the brother with a second elder to help him come to his senses. As those Elders are unable to convince the brother who has been lead astray, they then form a comity for Apostasy. This scenario is not all that far fetched.
15 years ago, a brother looked into my wallet (while I paid for something) and noticed I didn't have my ADD. He brought one at the following meeting where I signed it on the spot with two witnesses. Today, I realize that this was "undue influence". But at least, I still had the option to threw that newly signed card away. Today, they want photocopies and your medical record! I think that there is room for legal matter over this.
If anyone has copies of the Canadian instructions and Cards, please let me know as I think I will bring this to the attention of my local hospitals.
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blondie
*** km 12/04 p. 7 New Provision to Assist Us to Abstain From Blood ***
New Provision to Assist Us to Abstain From Blood
The Governing Body has approved combining the essential elements of the durable power of attorney (DPA) document and the Advance Medical Directive/Release card into a single legal document, which we shall refer to generally as a DPA card. A DPA card has been prepared for each state. The actual title of the DPA card varies from state to state.
You will need to fill out the DPA card for your state of residence only. The DPA card is valid indefinitely anywhere in the United States and will serve as a statement of your wishes when you travel internationally. In the future, you should fill out a new DPA card if (1) you need to make any changes to your DPA card, such as changing your wishes, health-care agents, addresses, and telephone numbers, or (2) your DPA card has been lost or destroyed.
The DPA card should be prayerfully considered and carefully filled out at home. However, before signing the card, it is important that the legal formalities be closely followed. For example, if your card says that two witnesses are required to see you sign, they should be present when you sign it. Book study overseers may periodically check with those who have not filled out new cards to see if assistance is needed.
Before folding the DPA card, make good-quality photocopies for your health-care agent, alternate health-care agent, and doctor as well as for your own records. You may also want to provide copies for other family members and the congregation secretary. Copies should be single-sided on standard-size (8 1/2″ x 11″) paper, with the DPA card centered on the page. The original DPA card, not a photocopy, should be kept on your person.
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StephaneLaliberte
Dam, Blondie, you are right, this has been around since 2004! So, all this is basically over the changing of a word :
"You may also want to provide copies ... " (2004)
to
"As a reminder, you should provide copies ..." (2016)
I don't know how the enforcement will play out but I suspect that they could become harder with time. However, in all honesty, it seems that my elders simply ignored the "photocopy" suggestion made in 2004! Never felt pressured in that aspect.
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betterdaze
From the Advance Decision:6. I consent to my relevant medical records and the details of my condition being shared with the Emergency Contact below and/or with member(s) of the Hospital Liaison Committee for Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Why not strike out the and/or statement and designate 9. EMERGENCY CONTACT a non-JW individual?
Preferably, OPPOSING next-of-kin? That and/or statement seems to allow the HLC to OVER RIDE the Emergency Contact, so why even bother having one? But then…
From the Guidelines:When contacting the HLC, have the following information available:
How do unbelieving family members (especially the Emergency Contact) go about contacting the HLC? How do we get their names, numbers, email?
• Spiritual standing of patient and family. Are unbelieving family members involved?
Do we call the Service Department? Or do we go through the local El-Duhs who’ve been instructed to use Theocratic Warfare? Will hospital staff even know who they are?