by jst2laws 20 Replies latest social current
Great thread Jst2!
I agree with everything you've said. I think sometimes because the majority of Americans come from a "christian" heritage, and it is the most visible religion in America, we forget that this is infact not a "Christian" nation. Where I grew up there were no temples, or mosqes. Just steeples and crosses as far as the eye could see.
This whole movement toward "American Values" that have to equal "Fundamental Christian Values" makes me totally nervous.
I did a quick search of the US Constitution and I could not find any occurrences of the following words: "God", "Jesus", or "Christian"
I did find the word "religion" one time in the first amendment...
Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances.
If the government can "make no law respecting an establishment of religion"... then quite clearly the US cannot be "established" as Christian in nature... or any other religion.
However, at the same time the government shall not "prohibit the free exercise" of religion either.
What does this mean? It is simple... the government cannot get involved in religion, which in turn guarantees that everyone of all religions will be free to worship without fear or interference by the government.
Thomas Jefferson explained it best:
To suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own (Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779).
The reason government should not be involved in religion is because doing so will interfere with the free exercise of religion.
A country cannot be christian, or muslim, or anything else. It may be influenced by religion, a very bad thing, or by people with spiritual principles as their guide, possibly a very good thing.
Religion, to me the external and group expression of a belief system, can and usually is a very ugly thing. Radical islam is a very good example, as is fundamental christianity; both force their beliefs on anyone within earshot, and in the end true believers will kill you if the stakes are high enough.
Leaders who are guided by true spiritual principles, generic ones that apply to all belief systems, are a very good thing.
The US should not be a "christian" country. What vision of christianity would be the one? There are thousands, and most believe they are the exclusive repository of religious truth.
Religion is to true spirituality as pornography is to true human sexuality.
I think the US Government should be a secular government and take no sides with any religion at all. However, I do not think the government should be anti-religious either. For example, I am by no means a Christian but I like Christmas, I like the decorations and I don’t want to see them go. I mean if you can’t have a baby Jesus in a manger decoration because its religious why can you have a tree which we all know has religious origins. Also if you throw out the ten commandments because they are identified with Judeo-Christian theology what about all the references to other religions in our society. Are we going to have to change the calendar because the months have religious origins? It all sounds a little JW like to me. I think we can get on a slippery slope on either side of this issue, we of course would never want to become a theocracy, but we can get just as insane going the other direction.
Terry
Yes, from the start the founders of this country were, for the most part, Christian.
So the Native Americans were instantly converted, eh?
Weren't the Native Americans there before the white man?
Well, American Indians were not considered U.S. citizens until 1924.
This topic raises so many questions, doesn't it?
Is it possible that Native American (specifically Iroquois) constitutional confederations existing before the arrival of the Europeans had any influence on the formation of the U.S. constitution? Hmmm..so much history to learn, and so little time.
Hamas; Jst2:
Hitler had some cosy book burning sessions. Seemed to work for him, for a few years...
Nilfun, you're on the same wavelength as me
I see it as being very short-sighted when Western civilisations see world events in purely white man's terms. The land of North America was one of many civilised Native American nations. Quite a history they had. Why ignore it when talking about the "founding" of America? America was already well founded long before the white man set foot on the continent.
There will always be some groups, including the vocal religious right, who will "claim" a country as "theirs".
I don't think it is and I think the continued labeling and grouping of peoples and countries by religion is one of the main reasons for a lot of the ongoing conflicts.
It would be better if church and state were totally separate and non were afforded special treatment.
Just a couple of cartoons I found fitting.
There are some great ones here... http://cagle.slate.msn.com/
