Judge Roy Moore (The Ten Commandments Judge)

by UnDisfellowshipped 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  jelly

  So then whats the answer? You realize that relgious imagery is everywhere, not just christain but pagan. Are we going to need to strip all references of relgion from our public buildings? If we just strip some but not all, who decieds what stays and what goes? Are we going to become like JW's who will not use the word luck becuase its orgin was pagan?

  Seems to me like alot of people are overeacting. I not relgious but I am not anti-relgious either and I have trouble seeing how a statue of the ten commandments could be interpreted as some form of state sanctioned relgion. If moore was using the ten commandments as a law reference, then yes I see a problem; but it is just some statue so I dont see a problem. I mean are the statues of pagan gods in the supreme court indicitive of the supreme court attempting to force paganism on us all? The watchtower would think so. I think to many people get to worked up about this issue. And the way the country is acting is displaying some brooklyn like behavior IMHO.

  Terry
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  Elsewhere

  Interpretation of law is very dynamic and changes with time... what we are seeing the law adapting to a changing population that is becoming more religiously diversified. The fundamentalist Christians are squirming because they are loosing their favored position within the government. They are losing their special unwritten rights and privileges that were never granted to other faiths. The fundamentalist Christians are being forced to stand on a level playing field with all other faiths.

  One must remember... the people are not defined by the law, it is the law that is defined by the people.
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  jelly

  I agree most of what you said elsewhere. I am still curious as to how this new adaptation of the law is going to be enforced. Is it just the judeo-christian stuff that needs to go, or everything. Rem mentioned only things that take a 'special meaning' -- what does that mean. It seems to the current fervor to remove icons of christianity reeks of a low scale purdge.

  Terry
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  Elsewhere

  Is it just the judeo-christian stuff that needs to go, or everything

  Under an absolutely strict interpretation of the law, then everything must go... but at the same time... the law must bend to the will of the people.

  America is just not ready to purge the government of all remnants of religion... there is too much sentimental value assigned to many things... the In GOD We Trust on money, the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building, swearing on bibles... these are all things that the courts are turning a blind eye to because the public wants the court to turn a blind eye to them.

  Very gradually, over time, these things will be removed one at a time... as the public becomes ready for it.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Thanks for all your comments. I enjoy seeing other people's opinions and ideas.

  Elsewhere said:

  Under an absolutely strict interpretation of the law, then everything must go... but at the same time... the law must bend to the will of the people.

  So, what does that mean? According to recent polls 77% of US people SUPPORT keeping the Ten Commandments Monument where it was. So where does that fit in with "the law must bend to the will of the people"?

  Elsewhere said:

  America is just not ready to purge the government of all remnants of religion... there is too much sentimental value assigned to many things... the In GOD We Trust on money, the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building, swearing on bibles... these are all things that the courts are turning a blind eye to because the public wants the court to turn a blind eye to them.

  So, the Federal Government gets to "pick-and-choose" WHICH RELIGIONS get to have monuments, and which religions DO NOT get to have monuments?

  Isn't that what the Constitution was trying to stop?

  Elsewhere said:

  Very gradually, over time, these things will be removed one at a time... as the public becomes ready for it.

  Yes, when the New World Order dictatorship arrives.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  By the way,

  I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with State Judges making monuments for ANY RELIGION -- Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hindu, etc.

  I do not buy the claim that displaying a monument acknowleding God in front of a State building is ESTABLISHING A STATE or NATIONAL RELIGION, and I do not believe that anyone in the world can make a convincing argument which proves otherwise.
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  rem

  First of all, there is a HUGE difference between the 10 Commandments freeze in the Supreme Court and the 10 Commandments monument that Judge Moore installed. The 10 Commandments freeze in the Supreme court is part of a pictorial murial of different law providers in history and in myth. There is nothing religious about it at all. It doesn't even have hardly any of the commandments displayed. It is a piece or artwork. Justice Moore's monument was not merely a piece of art. To compare the two is ridiculous.

  I do not buy the claim that displaying a monument acknowleding God in front of a State building is ESTABLISHING A STATE or NATIONAL RELIGION, and I do not believe that anyone in the world can make a convincing argument which proves otherwise.

  It completely disregards one of the best modern innovations in government - separation of church and state. That means that any type of monument that promotes any particular religion is simply not appropriate on government property. Again, there is a big difference between pieces of artwork that happen to have religious motifs or use of certain passages or scriptures and monuments that are clearly religious in nature - monuments that are there specifically to "acknowledge" a certain god or gods.

  Not sure why this is so difficult to comprehend.

  rem
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  The 10th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America:

  The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

  The 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America:

  No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

  Can someone please show me where the Constitution says that a State Judge is not allowed to put a monument (which he pays for) that acknowledges God and the Ten Commandments (or for that matter, Verses from the Quran about Allah and Muhammad) in front of a State building?

  The 14th Amendment, as you can see above, says that "No State shall make or enforce any LAW" and "nor shall any State deprive ANY PERSON [does that include State Judges?] of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".

  Now, I would love for someone to show me how Judge Roy Moore violated the 1st, 10th, or 14th Amendments of the Constitution, because Judge Roy Moore did not make ANY LAW, nor did he deprive anyone of life, liberty, or property.
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  Elsewhere

  Wow, you sure are determined to have your god be supported and mandated by the US government.

  Is your god so weak that it needs to be supported by a government?

  Do you so fear for the safety of your god that you must run and defend it… even mandating its respect by law under thread of penalty?
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Rem,

  Who gets to decide what the difference is between so-called "artwork" and so-called "promotion of a religion".

  That is an insane argument actually, in my opinion.

  I have seen the "artwork" of Moses and the Ten Commandments at the Supreme Court Building.

  First of all, there is Moses shown (and where is Moses from? The Christian and Jewish religions). Moses is holding the TWO TABLETS OF STONE WHICH WERE WRITTEN ON BY THE FINGER OF GOD! Now, if it was only "artwork" and not a religious symbol, WHY include the two Tablets that were written on BY GOD -- the two Tablets which can only be found in THE BIBLE?

  You have not explained at all what the difference is between Roy Moore's Ten Commandments on the Two Tablets Monument, and Moses with the Ten Commandments on the Two Tablets at the Supreme Court Building.

  Would it be okay in your mind if Roy Moore had built an exact replica of the "artwork" from the Supreme Court Building and placed it in front of the State building?