REM,
Could you explain to me the principle of seperation of Church and State...especially since that phrase is nowhere found in the constitution.
Judge Roy Moore (The Ten Commandments Judge)
by UnDisfellowshipped 39 Replies latest jw friends
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Elsewhere
Yeru,
That's odd, I could have sworn you believed in the Trinity... but of course that word does not appear in the Bible, so I must have been mistaken.
I'll let Mr. Jefferson explain the concept to you...
Believing that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State (Letter to the Danbury Baptists, 1802).
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crownboy
UnDissfellowshipped, given the fact that the current Supreme Court has shown a reluctance to grant cert. to cases regarding the 10 Commandments dispalys, the prospects look bleak. But if indeed they do, I would expect either a 6-3 or 5-4 ruling against the public displays of the commandments (not sure where O'Connor would come down on this).
As rem has pointed out, the display in the Supreme Court of the 10 commandments is shown in the context of displaying different historical and mythical lawgivers in the history of the world. It's not saying that our laws are based on the 10 commandments anymore than the painting of Mohamed speaking to Gabriel (from the same collection) implies that is how we got our laws.
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Yerusalyim
Well, where to start...the "concept of seperation of Church and state" envisioned by Jefferson and Madison is quite different than that envisioned by the looney left. When these guys were President...there was school prayer...when the 10 Commandments were originally displayed in the Supreme Court they were there not for purely historical reasons...but for reasons much closer to those of Judge Moore.
What the framers were trying to avoid was a state sponsored church..not the total eradication of religious sentiment from government.
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Bendrr
When this whole war over that monument started, I was in favor of just letting it stay there. I mean seriously, why are people getting so torqued over a *thing* right?
Then I got to see the people on both sides.
Now I say take that damn *thing* out of that courthouse and put it in A CHURCH WHERE IT BELONGS. There seems to be more hysteria on the part of some of Moore's supporters and some of that hysteria really scares the hell out of me. If there's violence to happen at that courthouse it won't suprise me one little bit.
I still don't support the complete eradication of all references to "God" and Christianity in our public places. Christians do a lot of good things and shouldn't be viewed as a whole on the basis of the zealots. I remember something to that effect being said about Islam a couple of years ago.
Not long ago I said "what's the big deal, it's just a *thing*, get over it and move on to bigger and better things." I say the same thing now, except I'm saying it to those who would spend their time at that courthouse all day instead of at their jobs or homes, get a grip people! Your church is still standing and your religion is alive and well. Go practice it and teach your children to "do what Jesus would do" because he sure as hell wouldn't be in a riot-waiting-to-happen over 5 thousand pounds of granite. I can't remember the passage or exact words right now, but I do remember something to the effect of Jesus came to fulfill the Mosaic law. Jesus himself summed up the law pretty succinctly when he told his disciples it all boiled down to "you must love your neighbor as yourself". (is it just me or does he sound a little Libertarian? "don't hurt anybody and don't take their stuff")
Yeah, just get that *thing* out of there and move on with your lives Alabama. I'll still hold to my original position regarding the opposers of Moore's. There's bigger battles to fight than over a sculpture in a courthouse.
We've got a long way to go y'all.
Mike.
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Yerusalyim
Mike,
Like I said, I have mixed feelings about the whole Judge Moore issue.
Having said that, these "zealots" as you call them (the guys praying in public and lying on the ground, but not threatening violence) wouldn't be in such an uproar if it didn't seem that there has been an all out assault on the Christian religion in this country. Boy scouts getting kicked out of parks that were donated to cities specifically for use by boy scouts...kids being told they can't come together and pray in school...Democratic Senators subverting the constitution not letting judicial nominees with any religious affiliation come up for a vote...public funding of absolute filth like a picture of Mary covered in $hit or a cross in urine, yet the 10 commandments forbidden...there are many many more examples...and it's obvious from the actions of the founders (hiring a chaplain, opening congress with prayer...allowing congress to be used as a church) that they didn't intend the "establishment clause" to be read as it is right now. Oh well, what to you want from a country whose last president put pornographic decorations on his "christmas" tree.
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heathen
I think the sepperation of church and state are mentioned in the part about not being able to force a political candidate to take a religious oath in order to obtain office . I haven't read the constitution in the last year or so but that I remember . I don't think the writers of the constitution wanted what many now believe is a christian nation . The tyranny that religion organized in europe was enough for them to realize that religion and politics is a bad combination . I still don't understand why these people continue to swear in office with a bible , a book they probably haven't even read .
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Amazing
Frankly, I am offended at the Eagle on the Presidential Seal ... it makes me feel the Government is establishing and forcing me to engage in bird worship.
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heathen
ROTFLMAO @ amazing . The eagle is also considered an unclean animal in the mosaic law .