Free Speech - Jordan Peterson Debate Live 9:30 EST Saturday

by cofty 86 Replies latest social current

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  Simon

  I think creating such a database now would be both dangerous (from a free-society point of view), morally wrong and inefficient.

  That's the wrong argument IMO. It's too abstract and uninteresting to the majority who feel Islam is a threat to them, their family and their way of life. It is a threat even if terrorism wasn't a part of it - there's already been suggestions to have Islamic neighbourhoods in Canada where different standards of dress would be expected. Any sensible muslim should be the first in line to shut that shit down ASAP.

  A better approach would be to attack how ineffective and counter productive it would be, by isolating the group it would make more people more likely to be vulnerable to extremist recruitment and jeopardize cooperation and intelligence gathering.

  however, I am right now more concerned about the "crazy right" as I think their view is being represented by the president-elect

  Instead of attacking them, we should put our own house in order to be more appealing. Part of the reason Clinton lost is she was too focused on Trump, not enough on her own message.

  Trust that they will annoy enough people that they will create their own problems. It's important to be a viable alternative which is why squashing the crazy left is so important, not pandering to them.
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  Simon

  Here's the debate:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDvj6DQd93o

  And some commentary on it:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYMTy2KMJUg
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  slimboyfat

  It used to be that internment camps in the US were only referred to as a source of shame. A wrong path taken at a difficult moment in history. But apparently there is a right wing commentator, on Fox News and elsewhere, called Michelle Malkin, who is trying to revise the history of internment and rehabilitate the idea for applying it to Muslims. It's amazing how battles you tend to think have been won can come back to haunt us. We are the generation that forgets how fragile democracy and freedom can be at our peril.
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  cofty

  Thanks Simon.

  Will listen to it this evening and see if he makes a convincing case.

  apparently there is a right wing commentator, on Fox News... - SBF

  You could finish that phrase with absolutely any foolishness imaginable.
  
  
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  Simon

  It's amazing how battles you tend to think have been won can come back to haunt us. We are the generation that forgets how fragile democracy and freedom can be at our peril.

  That's because people rely on a view just being "accepted" without anyone bothering to argue precisely why. Too often, the arguments are flawed - you'll hear that the process was abusive for instance. The problem with that argument is that it conflates the policy with the implementation.

  A comparison would be to argue that abuse happens in prison. Whether that is true or not (it almost certainly is) does not mean that prisons or imprisonment as a concept is wrong or evil and vice versa (you can't claim that imprisonment is OK and valid as long as people are well treated).

  This "accept this truth" is applied to so many things now and it's insidious. Not just because some of the truths being put forth might be wrong, but because it is creating generations of people who think a certain way about things but don't really know why and can't articulate their position (I see that with CNN experts far too often) and instead resort to "that's just wrong".

  Isn't that indoctrination?
  
  
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  Simon

  Will listen to it this evening and see if he makes a convincing case.

  I think he talks some sense but it's a bit of a hatchet job and obviously biased setup - the women are incredibly annoying and full of their own self-importance (and feminist BS).
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  MeanMrMustard

  Well, it took 5 years, but Jordan Peterson and Gad Saad have won the debate:

  https://youtu.be/kjqXhHX3Z3o