Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 2

by hooberus 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  hooberus

  On a previous thread many other "troublesome" verses have been brought up. I will take some of these and start theads for them. Due to the complexity of the subject, several threads each covering one or two verses will be started, Lord willing. Thanks for all your comments. I think that for simplicity sake, as well as to aid discussion, only one or two "troublesome" verses should be discussed in each thread.

  "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Timothy 2:5-6

  Some reason that since Jesus is the mediator between God and men that He could not also be God.
  However by this same reasoning Jesus could not also be a man. But the verse says that Jesus is a "man". Hense, if Jesus being a man does not disqualify him from being a mediator between God and men, then He is also not disqualified from being God as well (John 20:28).
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  hooberus

  The following comments are from David Reed:

  http://www.cftf.com/comments/ntansw02.html

  1 Timothy 2:5

  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (KJV)

  "A mediator between two parties stands in the middle between them and cannot be one of the parties," a Witness may argue, "so if Christ is the mediator between God and man he cannot be God." If that JW argument were true, however, Christ could not be man, either. Yet the scripture calls him the man Christ Jesus. We can agree that in most cases a mediator between two parties is not also one of the parties, but this case is different. The Witnesses' own New World Translation reveals that Christ started out "in God's form" but then "took a slave's formŠthe likeness of men." (Philippians 2:6-7) So, while most mediators can stand in the middle between parties because they are not on either side, Christ can stand in the middle because he is on both sides, by virtue of being both God and man.
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  stillajwexelder

  Sounds like the Arian controversy of the 3rd and 4th centuries all over again -- and the the pagan decided that after all Jesus was of the same substance as the father -- the scriptures wre put together by the early church fathers and they put in what they wanted -- and we have had trinity doctrines all through the Years -- Osiris begat Horua and Horus became God therefore Osiris was Horus -- Egyptian Trinity --- Isis, Osiris and Horus -- what a loada of crap the trinity doctrine is -- could never belong to a religion that believed in the Trinity
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  gumby

  Hooberus,

  I know you don't like me but the dilema that made me reconsider the bible was my last episodes in christianity that dealt with this subject.........is Jesus God or not? I had to know as I thought this was the biggest and most important doctrine for me to have right. Was Jesus also God.

  After a few years of trying my VERY HARDEST to figure it out .....I began to ask myself this. "If this is SOOOOOOOOOOOO important to know.........then why won't he give me an answer? Why do I have to dig so hard to find out Jesus real role and Jehovah's real role? Why are there so many people with different views on the most important doctrine there is? Surely God would let honest hearted ones know. I never found out......although at the last of my christian days I DID NOT believe in the trinity.

  Gumby
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  LittleToe

  Gumby:Some would say that Jesus IS Jehovah, and that the Father is another person entirely.

  Hooberus:
  I believe that Gal.3:20 may throw some light on this:
  "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."

  A mediator is between several parties and is a third party in their own right.
  IMHO, this text implies either there is no need for a mediator, else there are more than one persons involved in "God". It appears that Paul is making an arguement, but quickly highlighting that he's not contradicting monotheism in his "difficult words".
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  stillajwexelder

  The trinity along with Fatwa is the biggest reason that very few Muslims convert to Christianity
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  LittleToe

  Still:What the heck has that got to do with the thread?
  That was totally off-topic, my good man...
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  hooberus

  stillajwexelder said: and we have had trinity doctrines all through the Years -- Osiris begat Horua and Horus became God therefore Osiris was Horus -- Egyptian Trinity --- Isis, Osiris and Horus -- what a loada of crap the trinity doctrine is -- could never belong to a religion that believed in the Trinity

  Isis, Osiris, and Horus, were 3 separate gods who ruled over a pantheon on many gods. TheTrinity doctrine teaches that there is only 1 God.

  The trinity along with Fatwa is the biggest reason that very few Muslims convert to Christianity

  Muslims commonly believe that the trinity is God, Mary, and Jesus.
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  gumby

  Isis, Osiris, and Horus, were 3 separate gods who ruled over a pantheon on many gods.

  Those mentioned here should solidify a good comprehension of the Jesus story..

  Gumby
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  ClassAvenger

  Still,

  Try researching on the Trinity and try researching on the lies the Watchtower taught you to support their unitarian point of view. If the Trinity was a false doctrine, why would the Watchtower need to lie so much to prove that the Trinity is wrong. If they were correct, they wouldn't have needed to make any of the misquoting and changing bible verses and all that stuff you find in their Bible and books. - CA