PRB said: hooberus,
Thanks for your comments. However, it really takes a tremendous logical leap to equate Jesus with Jehovah after quoting all the scriptures you made reference to.
Here are the scriptues again:
In what sense is the Father God?
"For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:" Deuteronomy 10:17
"O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever." Psalm 136: 1-3
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1 Corinthians 8:5-6
The Father since he is "God of gods" (Deuteronomy 10:17 Psalm 136:1-3) and the "one God" as contrasted with the "gods many" (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) must be the true God Jehovah.
In what sense is the the Son Lord?
"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:14-15
"For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:" Deuteronomy 10:17
"O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever." Psalm 136: 1-3
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1 Corinthians 8:5-6
The Son since he is "Lord of lords" (Deuteronomy 10:17 Psalm 136:1-3) and the "one Lord" as contrasted with the "lords many" (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) must be the true Lord Jehovah.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 is clearly making a distinction between Jesus and Jehovah.
1 Corintians 8:5-6 is not making a disctiction between Jesus and Jehovah (which does not appear in the New Testament).
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 is primarily making a distinction between the "gods many" / "lords many" with the one God and one Lord. The is also a disctiction made between the Father and the Son. However both are Jehovah.
The Father and the Son are addressed in completely separate references in verse 6.
The Trinty teaches that the Father and the Son are separate persons within the Godhead, hense them shown to be distinct from one another is according to Trinitarian theology. The fact that there seems to be a distinction between the "one God the Father" and Jesus Christ does not mean that He is not also God any more than the fact that the Father is shown to be distinct from the "one Lord Jesus Christ" means that He is not also Lord.
As one of David Reed's books says:
"There is but one God," says Jehovah's Witness in applyling this verse, "and who is he? The Father! So, Jesus is not God." However, there is a flaw in his line of reasoning. Don't let him stop there; make him apply the same line of reasoning to the rest of the verse. Then he will have to say, "There is but one Lord, and who is he? Jesus Christ! So, the Father is not Lord." Of course, the JW does not want to reach this conclusion, because he always speaks of Jehovah as 'Lord." Point out to him that he cannot have the one without the other. He cannot make the first half of the verse exclude Jesus fron being God, without making the second half exclude the Father from being Lord.
The fact is that scripture uses the terms God and Lord virtually interchangeably. The various false gods are called both "gods" and "lords." The Father is called both "God" and "Lord," and the Son is referred to by both terms. The apostle Thomas addressed Jesus as "my Lord and my God" (John 20:28). Watchtower leaders have taught their disciples to see 1 Corinthians 8:6 in a contrast that does not exist. Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse by Verse p. 96
You also made reference to Psalms 136:1-3 where Jehovah is referred to as both "God of gods" and "Lord of lords". By using this reference, you are obviously trying to tie it to Jesus being "Lord of lords" (see Rev. 17:14 and Rev. 19:16).
Yes, because the verses are so similar. They make a good match for compariso
When considering the reference to Jesus as “Lord of lords”, you have to remember how he got to that position. Jehovah God (his Heavenly Father) granted him the elevated position of “Lord of lords” (Mt. 28:18, Mt. 11:27, Eph. 1:20-22, Php. 2:9,10).
None of these verses say that Jesus was elevated to the postition of being "Lord of lords" The verses you listed talk about Jesus receiving "All things" and "all authority" from the Father. I don't think that this shows that Jesus was not "Lord of lords" until these times. We know that he was the creator of "all things" and that He was the "Lord" of the Old Testament.
Even though Jesus is referred to as “Lord of lords” in Relations 17:14 and 19:16, there is no reference to Jesus being “God of gods”.
There is also no reference to the Father being "God of gods" in the New Testamant does this mean that He is not then "God of gods"? Of course not. We know that the Father is the God of gods mentioned in the Old Testament because the New Testament says that He is God. Just like we know that Jesus is the "God of gods" of the Old Testament because the New testament says that He is God.
Interestingly the New Testament never refers to the Father as "Lord of lords" (though I believe that He is). The New Testamant applys this phrase to Jesus Christ, hense Jesus Christ is the "Lord of lords" of the Old Testament.
You can look to Ephesians 1:21 which provides more light as to how Jesus is “Lord of lords”.
"And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, " Ephesians 1:19-22
Ephesians Chapter 1:19-23 is talking about the postional nature of the resurrected man Jesus Christ, not him becoming "Lord of lords"
"And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places," Ephesians 1:19-20
"Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself." Psalm 80:17
"Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," Ephesians 1:21-22
"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: Psalm 8:4-6
Though as a man he was elevated postionally above all these things, I don't believe that this is when he became "Lord of lords" Before the time of his exaltation (Ephesians 1:19-22) as a man above these things, Jesus was already above them because he was their creator:
"And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," Ephesians 1:19-22
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Colossians 1:16-18
In Matthew 28:18, Jesus acknowledged that authority had been granted to him. Therefore, Jesus would not be Lord of lords if the Father had not granted him that position.
I'll deal more (Lord willing) with Matthew 28:18 on another thread.
