I Guess That I am not a Christian Afterall

by Robdar 32 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  jgnat

  One of my pet peeves about the society is that they expect Christians to imitate Christ and all his qualities. To do less in the society is to be a failure. So much emphasis on show, so little attention to the heart.

  As has been pointed out, there is nothing wrong with righteous anger. You were wronged.

  When I greive, I work through the psalms. David must have been depressed often. Many of his songs start out as a rail against God for the injustices David faced. I imagine David was comfortable enough with God to approach him when he was mad, sad, goofy, and everything in between. You think God can't handle how you feel? I say, he is ready and willing to share your pain with you.
• 

  Lady Lee

  Robyn

  If you had a child who was angry because someone hurt them would you tell them to just stop being angry? Would you stop loving them because they stayed angry for a while even if it was a long while? If we can understand a rightful anger for others and still love them then I really do believe God is capable of doing the same and much more. Think of it this way Robyn. God's love is bigger than any anger you have towards your ex. Allow yourself to feel what you feel but try not to get lost in it.

  Teejay makes a good point. The anger is hurting you and does nothing to him. I think the anger is justified and we have feelings for a reason - to let us know we have been hurt. Sometimes anger though hides the pain. If you stay angry then you don't have to feel the pain and grieve the loss.

  Try writing how you feel - anger and all. You can control the anger. It shouldn't be controlling you.
• 

  Lady Lee

  TeeJay

  Luke 17 1 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3 So watch yourselves.
  "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." NIV

  re·pent
  1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
  2 a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one's mind transitive senses1 : to cause to feel regret or contrition
  2 : to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for
  - re·pent·er noun

  Merriam-Webster Dictionary
• 

  teejay

  >>>><I> Try writing how you feel - anger and all.</I> -- Lady Lee

  Robyn

  LL makes a splendid suggestion.

  Recently, I discovered Animal's autobiographical thread that I missed when he first posted it back in December. Without exaggeration, his post is one of the most profound bits of writing I've read on this board. Check this out:

  Each group had 2 counselors, and we needed to trust them. Well, I trust no one, so this should be interesting as hell. We also got homework, to be done for the next mornings classes. We had to write two letters, to someone, anyone, involved in our lives. Damn who do I write to?

  I write my 2 letters, one to my real dad (left when I was 4) and one to my adoptive step dad (the Elder in JWs). The letters were total opposites of each other, the one to the step dad full of hate and threats of death, and the one to the real dad filled with questions of why? I turned them in, knowing I never gave them an address to send them to. I figured they were just gathering information for further classes.

  We are broken down into groups of 3, and put into a counselors office. Once there, we are informed that we have to read our letters, one after the other, out loud. I am paired up with 2 of the cutest gals there and have to maintain my cool, that tuff-guy thing. It is voted, not by me, that I will go first. Ugh. So, I ready them, one after the other. I read the hate filled one first, seeing the girls shrink back from me when the threats are made. Then I read the one to my real dad. Let me tell you, I didnt even get thru the first paragraph before breaks in my voice showed up. I maintain, or try to, but eventually I break down in tears, still reading. Holy shit, what a pussy! But I cant stop, and manage to finish the letter. I look up, and the counselor and the 2 girls are crying too. This is going be a long week.

  The girls read their letters and we all did the hug thing. After each letter was read, the counselor tore it into pieces. Once we were all done, he burned the papers in a trash can. No one would ever see what we wrote. The exercise was explained to be one that we should do anytime we are upset with someone. Write them our deepest feelings, letting it all out. Then destroy the letter. You let out your anger in the letter, and can then talk to or write to the person without all the pent up anger. Let me tell you, it worked for me that day. I felt so much weight come off my chest. I could breathe. I was impressed and amazed. I also made 2 new friends, the girls that watched me be a human.

  Cool, huh? Animal did us all a huge favor, IMO. Give his suggestion a try and let us know how it turns out.
• 

  Phantom Stranger

  Excellent, teejay. And BTW, burning them is a key component - don't stop at little pieces.
• 

  donkey

  Robyn,

  You are too intelligent to be a Christian. Besides...Christians have committed THE most heinous acts in history...it is an oxymoron to equate Christianity with love.

  Donkey
• 

  mouthy

  I love ya Donkey but just as my name suits me Yours suits you !!!!!!
• 

  donkey

  I luv ya to Mouthy!!

  You know let's take Christians. Most Christians are pro-life (anti-abortion) etc. They claim the fetus is a human life and they also claim that humans go to heaven or at least the innocent/good ones and the bad ones go to hell. So if that is all true then aren't we doing the fetus (ah human) a favor by sending them straight to heaven and removing them from the chance of going to hell? Is heaven eternal bliss? Then aren't we sending the fetus (baby/human) straight to eternal bliss? Can Christians explain this inconsistency to me?

  As I see it here are the possible logical outcomes:

  1. Innocence is not enough to qualify for heaven - so then did the fetus/baby go to hell?
  2. OR We are interfering with the future free-will of the fetus/baby - if that's true what's the problem - again I ask did the baby/fetus go to heavenly bliss or to hell?
  3. OR We just don't know and Christians are looking to condemn someone for something else?

  I know this is probably a topic for another thread but I feel sorry for my kind friend Robdar for beating herself up over a logically flawed belief system so I just point to another obvious flaw.

  Donkey - the dumbass
• 

  gumby

  Donkey ya bastard! Where have you been? Your one of my favorite sceptics!

  I think you and peacefulpete are of the devil though , as I mentioned the same to him.

  Rule #1....never...and I mean never.....pick on mouthy! If you have a deep contraversial subject you'd like to discuss, ther'e a guy her named JCanon who's pretty sharp and can answer almost any questions you have. Mouthy's a lovable Granny who's too sensative for your meaness.

  Sorry dude...I'm in one of those moods

  Your question is one of the many I had trouble with as a christian. Also......what happens to the billions who do not know christ when he comes as they have never been given the message about him? Are they toast too?

  Gumby
• 

  Robdar

  I know it sounds easy and I really don't mean it to sound that way, but what else can you do? ...Forgive.

  TeeJay, your advice is good, as always. I just can't get to the forgiveness part yet. But it is an admirable goal to reach. Just being able to talk about it helps. Thanks for your encouragement.
  

  "...pray for those who do you injury." Now if you pray everyday for your husband and wish him blessings and happiness, how could you continue to view him as your enemy?

  Kenneson, I have thought much about what you said for the past few hours. I am trying to follow your advice.

  Last night, since I can't lie to God by asking him to bless my X when I don't really feel that way, I started out just asking him that one day Mike will understand how badly he has hurt me (I doubt that he would care that he has, but who knows). Not only where he hurt me in our marriage but in the settlement. I also asked that I will understand how I hurt him. I also asked that we one day forgive each other. I can't ask for a blessing yet, not while the pain is so raw. But I am working towards blessing my X. I hope that I will be able to do it one day.

  When I greive, I work through the psalms. David must have been depressed often. Many of his songs start out as a rail against God for the injustices David faced. I imagine David was comfortable enough with God to approach him when he was mad, sad, goofy, and everything in between.

  JG, David is one of my favorite characters in the Bible because he was able to talk to God the way he did. He was never afraid to be who he was and he accepted that God loved him regardless of his faults. And the cool part is that God did love David, warts and all.

  What you said helped me to put aside my shame over my emotions and try to pray again. When I prayed, I followed Kenneson's advice. I feel so much better today. Much more relaxed.

  Would you stop loving them because they stayed angry for a while even if it was a long while? If we can understand a rightful anger for others and still love them then I really do believe God is capable of doing the same and much more....Try writing how you feel - anger and all. You can control the anger. It shouldn't be controlling you.

  LadyLee,

  What you said is very true. As a parent, it grieved me to see my son eaten up by anger but I never became angry with him for being angry. I gave him time to feel what he was feeling and I attempted to help him work through it.

  I will be writing a letter. I have never tried this sort of therapy before. I hope it works.

  You are too intelligent to be a Christian. Besides...Christians have committed THE most heinous acts in history...it is an oxymoron to equate Christianity with love

  Donkey, you are one of my dearest friends on the board. One of my first friends. Thank you for your compliment that you think that I am intelligent.

  Yes, Xtians have committed some of the most heinous acts in history. But just because these people called themselves Christian does not mean that it is so.

  When I say that I am a Christian, I do not mean in a typical way. Here are some ways in which I am different from the fundies:

  I do not believe in original sin.

  I believe in evolution. (it makes sense to me that a loving creator would provide a built in mechanism for adaptation since he knows that life on earth wouldn't always be buckky duccky do)

  I do not believe in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. If there was no original sin, why would there need to be a ransom sacrifice?

  I do believe that Jesus was God incarnate:

  I believe that God, knowing that we could never begin to understand why we died and the pain that death causes us, came to earth--as a human, to show us a better way. To show us how to love one another. If we all followed his example, the world would be a different place.

  Then, through his reserrection, he showed us that there is more to life than just this physical existence.

  I believe much more than this but it would take a very long time to explain.

  Now, knowing that God/Christ is love, the Bible is very specific about that, I have endeavored, in my life, to find out as much about love as I can. I have tried to experience and learn about all the many types of love. Because of this, I have studied many belief systems including, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, and others that you probably would not want to know of.

  I do not join these different religions, I only study them and occasionally attend services. This is only to hear their viewpoints and to take what I need to find more love within myself. I do this because I truly feel that God is found within, not without.

  It is my opinion that of all the prophets and wise men and women that I have studied, Christ's teachings are the best when it comes to understanding love and its consequences. This is why I chose to try to follow Christ. He made it simple. Christendom, otoh, only complicates things.

  Because I endeavor to follow the example of Christ, I call myself a Christian. Or, I attempt to be a Christian.

  Your question is one of the many I had trouble with as a christian. Also......what happens to the billions who do not know christ when he comes as they have never been given the message about him? Are they toast too?

  Gumby, no they are not toast.

  Thanks to all of you for your advice. It was good advice. Most of all, thank you for making me think. You helped me process my anger. I am indebted to all of you.

  Love,

  Robyn