Well said dubstepped
Which is better minimum wage or minimum income?
by hoser 53 Replies latest jw friends
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dubstepped
^^^ Thank you!
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Simon
Exactly. People don't seem to get that there are two sides to every coin.
There are people that have plenty money, but they are driven and they work hard and earn more - it's not even all about the money, it's about the achievement and accomplishment. Likewise there are people who won't work even if their life depended on it (and maybe it should) and they have no sense of wanting or needing to do anything for anyone, themselves included (but offer a handout and they'll get out of bed to collect it). Everyone else is somewhere in between.
Why on earth would you tilt the system to favour the feckless?
90% of productivity is down to 10% of people. It's the reason capitalism works because you NEED that 10% to be motivated and the system to reward them. This is the reason for the collapse of systems when communism takes over and farms are taken off hard-working people and given to others based on political affiliation and then crops fail and everyone starves to death.
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slimboyfat
Maybe that's too high. What about £1200 or $2000, or the equivalent. That might be enough to live on without a car, holidays or other luxuries. I wonder if, instead of giving billions to bail out banks and subsidise banker bonuses, the money was distributed as a basic income to everyone, would it cost more or less. Plus factoring in the removal of current payments and savings from scrapping the bureaucracy required to administer the current system. Would it cost money or save money? The marginal propensity to spend is greater for smaller incomes, so it would be a tremendous boost to the economy too.
Trials of such schemes I think have tended to show that few people choose not to work. Instead activity and productivity increase overall. There are all sorts of positive effects for individuals and society as a whole.
But like I say, even if the evidence shows it saves money, increases well being, and boosts the economy, some people would opppose it anyway.
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Simon
How about 10% flat tax rate for everyone on everything.
Work more, earn more. Don't give other people's money away, ever.
But like I say, even if the evidence shows it saves money, increases well being, and boosts the economy, some people would oppose it anyway.
And like I said, all the evidence is against it working which is why people oppose it - because it's been tried and results in the deaths of millions EVERY TIME.
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hoser
If there was a minimum income all of the fast food joints would shut down. Who would work for 15 bucks an hour if you can get the same amount of money staying at home?
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MeanMrMustard
@hoser:
Exactly. In the short term, you would see these disruptions.
But they wouldn’t shut down completely. They would attract the labor by offering $20/hr. To cover that, prices will rise. That will happen throughout the supply chain. The recipient of minimum income/wage would soon find himself roughly back to where he started. In this example, $15/hr would be the new $0.
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_Morpheus
Its so insane. The belief that the government can or should take care of people... its utopian wet dreams that always lead to dystopian realities
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JeffT
The big burger chains are exploring and/or making trial runs with automating a lot of their jobs. The cooking will be done by robots and cashiers will be replaced by machines where you punch in your order and pay for it without human intervention. Essentially they just turn the cash registers around. The only humans left will be one person to hand you you order, and another to mop the floor.
These used to be the jobs where high school students started out, learning basics skills like showing up for work on time and not pissing off the customers (or the boss). I don't know what all these kids will do in the future.
This is one reason why I don't like raising the minimum wage. Part of your pay is learning those basic skills. Nobody wants to pay somebody who doesn't know what they're doing $20/hr to do it. After you've proven yourself, you move on to a better job.
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Simon
cashiers will be replaced by machines where you punch in your order and pay for it without human intervention. Essentially they just turn the cash registers around.
They have those here already and to be honest I didn't use them at first because I was "supporting the humans" but so many of them were so unbelievably stupid I now go straight to the machines because I can do it faster and more accurately. Like how many times can you hear "breakfast wrap" and think I said (randomly) burrito, burger or whatever else they sold. Whatever those people were being paid was too much because it was a shitty customer experience. It's not always the way, some are great, but this is why minimum wage makes no sense - why should the useless people be paid as much as the conscientious hard workers who are good representatives of their company? The company should have the right to pay what people are worth for that role.