by lsw1961 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I think from you first sentence you feel you gained from the experience. I'm not sure that I did. However my loss or gain wasn't the reason I left.
l post in this forum not to attack anybody its a place to discuss and comment like I'm doing now. It doesn't make much difference to my life although I have been able to change some of my views about my years as a witness.
Recently all the JW apologists have disappeared from this forum. Now all we get to enjoy are the occasional one-and-dones. I think more could be done to avoid scaring them away so quickly. Considering the fact that they are coming from a position of ignorance, I think we could be more patient and go easier on them (Myself included).
To the OP:
Thanks for your thoughts. I think almost any religion has some good points about it. Unfortunately, the things that you downplay such as the shunning policies are hurting a lot of people. It's sad because many people who are disfellowshipped left for valid reasons. Nobody deserves to be cut off from their loved ones. Nobody deserves to be treated as the living dead when they enter a kingdom hall to fight a weakness or try and makes things right with their god. Repenters should not have to suffer cruel and unusual punishment.
Hi lsw1961,
Welcome to the forum. Its not often one gets to communicate with an active JW on this forum who still believes in the JW tdoctrine. Unlike the jwtalk forum you'll find you will not get the banhammer just because you have a dissenting opinion. Unfortunately you're going to get it from all sides from the members though, and I am no exception.
Firstly I will concede that the JW religion has some good points. By the same token so do the Catholics, Baptists, Scientologist, Buddhists and the whole gambit of religion. The heart of your post goes to the question of why many ex-JW's criticize the organization so vehemently and you also state that ex-JW's are essentially unhappy and spiteful.
However your thesis falls apart with your own answer:
Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong.
1. You admit that this is wrong. Most people congregate here for that very reason.
2. You would not be able to express your opinion about shunning openly within your own congregation. If you did you would be booted out pretty quickly.
But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy!
1. You will not find a single reference to disfellowshipping in the Bible teach book nor the new version of the book.
2. What do you say to born ins like myself who have experienced family pressure to conform from the earliest age?
---
You also were careful to steer clear of the blood policy which has caused many people/children to die unnecessarily.
As a last point I have to mention that if you shared the fact with your congregation elders that you were engaging in a defense of your beliefs on this website you would find yourself out of your congregation in no time at all. With the current policies I suspect even Jesus would be disfellowshipped for engaging the "enemy" if he was around today.
Anyhooo, welcome again and I hope you're not just trolling and you stay on for some debate.
Greetings
I think we could be more patient and go easier on them
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
lsw1961 welcome ! --do I hear a slavic accent? have you lived through the Stalin years? working in a state-owned enterprise? belonged to the pioneers? everybody is "tovarich", but some are more "rich" than others? like in bethel. equal in the race to the bottom? flying first class?
To quote a source you should be familiar with: "Religion is opium for the people", and this "bible -based" religion is no exception. No doubt opiates are painkillers, a real benefit, and withdrawal can be shattering, but has to done to face and enjoy reality, better sooner than later.
Keep posting and reading here and the sites mentioned above. and see not only the good but the better. karashov ++
Welcome to the site Isw1961. Glad you are here and think it worthwhile to post your thoughts.
Ex JWs do ”go on” a bit don’t they! Its because we are suffering from the disastrous effects of having been a Witness and we’re still receiving the fall-out...families broken and separated from us by the edict of the governing body.
When we were JWs we never saw the bad things about the org because we were so much a part of it, like fish don’t see the water.
As humans and therefore social beings... we look at the society we live in as a guide to what is normal. We were hermetically immersed in a community which we took to be not only admirable but God ordained. We have left that group and now we have our own conscience and will to guide us. It can be bewildering at the start... so we understand your situation.
Not everything about JWs is bad you say and that must be true because JWs are generally decent people, the source of the problem lies is in the authoritarian leadership of the org. Once it has been accepted by an individual that they (GB) are gifted with God’s exclusive approval; then anything goes, they have holy privilege. Could this be true?
You mention how good the day’s text is. Looking back I would now see it as part of a package for inducing total WTBTS mind control. You may think that is a bit extreme... but it won’t seem so, after you have been out for a while.
Every last thing the Watchtower says and prints is propaganda. It is entirely designed for compliance to the organisation but for what purpose? It is for the securing of the power of its leadership. Take for example the complete lack of compassion and psychological welfare for the victims of child sexual abuse within the organisation. The cover up is in the interests of the leadership and their spotless standing in the world at the expense of the abused. It is an abusive religion.
This organisation is a corrupt and heartless propaganda machine which stunts the intellectual and emotional development of its members and has never taught anything of any use...it has for one hundred and thirty six years been feeding off its supporters gullibility only to mislead them.
Welcome to the real world.
Isw welcome , firstly let me give you my background . I am a long time member of the Anglican Church , never a JW . Many years ago after discussions with JWs at my door I accepted a " Should You Believe In The Trinity ? " booklet , pamphlet whatever you call it .
In it were quotes from the Early Church Fathers about the Trinity . I was confused , why would all the main stream faiths teach the Trinity if the Early church leaders did not believe in this doctrine ?
So I took the time to do what the Bible says - to check out what I was being told . Now the Watchtower recommends this , in principle at least as long as you only check things out in Watchtower publications , I have come to realise . I didn't know that then so I went to the source , the writings of the Church Fathers who were quoted .Lo and behold the " quotes " in the booklet were in fact blatent misquotes .
That experience told me clearly that I could not trust anything written by the WT .I looked into the teachings in more depth , found out about the huge u turns in doctrine , you can celebrate Christmas , no you can't .
You should worship Jesus , no you shouldn't . You can have a blood transfusion , no you can't , well you can sort of ! .
I could go on ad infinitum .. These things are NOT new light , by their own definition new light should enhance old light , not contradict it .
As to other points that you made lots of people have their lives turned around , not by joining an organisation but by having faith in Christ , which is how the Bible says we are saved . Other faith groups not only campaign for social justice , but are out in the world feeding the poor , building orphanages , supplying medicine to the sick and generally looking after the poor and needy .
Lots more that could be said by all the posters here , but you are probably feeling " got at ' right now , which is not our intention .It is the WT , not you that we all have a problems with , different problems from different perspectives , to be sure , but please think carefully about all of the statements made here .
Jan
Isw1961, welcome. As previously said, I hope you are willing and courageous enough to discuss and research what you believe is "present truth," rather than just being a zealous J.W. who feels they can make a few pro-J.W. statements as a "defence of the truth", and then disappear.
If you are sincere, then I'd like to pick up on certain points you make; (I am presently regarded as a J.W. by others)
1) "Even Apostle Paul taught (in 1 Cor. 10:11) that the kingdom would come in the first century. Such false teaching...."
A bit of research shows that Paul was correct - the kingdom (Gr.basileia - kingship) was established in the first century, as Psalm 110:1 and 10 other Greek scriptures confirm! (type in "right hand" in WT CD ROM)
2) But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy!
Do you personally know of any Bible Studies who were clearly warned about shunning & disfellowshipping as they studied the Bible Teach book? I never had to mention it when I studied with others. Try it - and see how long a study continues!
3) When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah.
When you say you found "certain things confusing" do you mean lies? Such lies as, new scrolls, judicial committees, Romans 6:7 is about literal death, the name Jehovah's Witnesses is Bible based, J.W. paedophiles should not be reported to worldly authorities, and Christ won't judge dead people for their past sins, etc., etc. And who are the "higher ups?" Didn't Jesus say that Christians "are all brothers," and that "one is your leader?" Therefore, in the Org's world, only they have the authority to discern truth, and can present falsehoods with impunity.
Try using an online Greek concordance when studying/reading the RNWT. You'll get a clearer understanding of how some scriptures should be translated, rather than how they are presented by individuals who have an agenda to push.
e.g. Hebrews 13:17 - "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive...." (RNWT)
Literal translation - "Be persuaded by those going before you, and be yielding to admonition."
Much more loving and appealing for Christians, don't you think? Looking forward to hearing your views. (1 Peter 3:15)
Cofty and jookbeard
With careless ease you dismissed all the good points, which are in fact, really good points. This is the benefit of being a JW. We have the guts to call a spade spade. You would notice from my post that I am still able to discriminate between the good and the bad in JWs.
Anyone can have disagreement, that ‘s natural. But when you allow it to take a monstrous form of blind enmity, spilling venom in all directions, unable to see any good points in a group—doesn’t that tell you that you have to restore your balance you lost somewhere along the way?
