JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    I know the hurt you people experienced for which I express my personal apology - unless you were actually involved, this is not necessary, thank you.

    I notice you chose not to respond in any way to my post.

    Still waiting ...

  • Simon
    Simon
    Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world. But JWs have successfully done it in all their Offices throughout the world for over a century. This is no insignificant accomplishment as this has the potential to solve virtually all the problems of the world.

    Doe all the people at Bethel have gold rings and Apple iWatch'es?

    If you think the GB have the same income as the people they have volunteering you are deluding yourself. They don't look like they are living frugal lives, they look like they like nice things and get them.

  • flipper
    flipper

    Isw1961 - welcome.

    I hope that you will do more research on this religion before you get in too deep.

    Your marriage, children and friendships will be in danger and this is no exaggeration.

    The corruption is terrible.

    I was never a jw but have a lot of inlaws in this church. Their mean spirited hypocritical behavior has been so much worse than what I observed in other religions, excepting Scientology and Moonies. Jws are pretty similar to those but disguise it better.

    That is what they do best - put on an innocent appearance to outsiders.

    Mrs. Flipper

  • TheWonderofYou
    TheWonderofYou

    I find the tread I little bit amusing. JW good points > JW bad points. But your points though are a good comprehensive catalog of JW ideas, you think obviously very positive.

    As for argument 1: Character change into good personality?

    I was a well-balanced young teenager with positive life attitude,

    meriful and loving, non smoker, I had absolutely no destructive side, i liked the bible., was no atheist.

    and they made of me an obeying societyman who had to adopted destructive

    unloving teachings false hopes, not allowed to go out, to learn dancing, got socially isolated

    and sacrificed my higher education, because the world is evil. Then I had part-time job for pioneering, what was very restrictive for my life plan (as male), everything worthless now.

    I had to get rid of the character changes they made with me to become happy and free.

    The christian god doesnt want to transform us by teachings, but is mercy, love and loving kindness per see,

    I think that it was not the teachings that was so much overwhelming, but more the loving kindness of the JW members that convinced me and that I wanted to imitate.

    The pionieer spirit for example, i liked it.

    The simple life,

    the humble attitude.

    Human examples I liked to imitate in my teenager area.

    But I think that these individuals who were my good examples, were good people already before they became JW and not only by the teachings and charakter change, they were rather hindered to be merciful by the strict organisation rules.

    Some JW had always problems because they could not change their character completly and remained drinkers or had other bad behaviours with wife or family (those underdogs in the congregation i did not want to have contact with then). Logically that they faced constant disciplination sessions by the elders.



  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The point being there some very nice people who are JWS, what the real problem is the JW religion itself that can be very damaging to individuals and to further extent humanity.

    Personally I've seen better attributes in other declared practicing Christians.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    . At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side which arose unwittingly out of good-intention. Even Apostle Paul taught (in 1 Cor 10:11) that the kingdom would come in the first century.

    I think Paul was saying it was the end of the ages with the resurrection of Jesus

  • GrownMidget
    GrownMidget

    Although I know this is either a troll or you will never answer back, I will still throw out stuff.
    Maybe I am wrong and you really read but are just ignorant individual trying to test your faith.

    1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings
    While religion in general might have positive effects in ones life, it can also have negative effect of great magnitude. I was in a destructive path indeed, but that was while I was in the organization being a game piece. After leaving, I have found peace that I was said never to find. And that can be seen pretty often in the publications by the organization. "All the good is only within the religion of witnesses and by leaving you will lose yourself in the world". Hearing something like this in the meetings is way too often so you start to believe it. What they say is a lie on majority of people.

    If interested more, read the long tirade I made as my first post.

    2) Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.
    I'm not sure about the pay, but would guess it's at max a money to get tooth brush and shampoo because God demands cleanness. Now the majority are being kicked out for their hard work at Bethel and organization still has balls to ask them for more via pioneering (which surely is completely free labor).

    4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.
    And many lost ones. You really think they will openly admit to regular members losing a legal case? lol. That would cause hysteria because Jehovah wasn't blessing them this time.
    As an example, Candace Conti case. Heard of it at the meetings? I doubt. Also there is one going on right now where Governing Body member, Geoffrey Jackson, is being questioned by the Australian Royal Commission. Future will tell what will happen with that one.


    5) They effectively invited the attention of the world into the thinking that evolution theory is just a theory
    Evolution is proven by facts. Creation theory is not proven by anything and actually science disproves what Bible says to be true (6000 years of humanity and what not). It's all only in a book written long ago by primitive man without any understanding of what is going on in the universe or on the earth, therefore "God". Sounds like Giorgio A. Tsoukalos.

    And as a last thing, few things right in the Bible are not proof of divinity. Rabbit eating its poop can be a good observation since to human it's weird to eat feces. Earth hanging in the space could also be poetry, they might have had very wise men living in their ages that had access to good equipment of that time or simply just a damn good guess.

    List can go on and on. At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side which arose unwittingly out of good-intention. -- Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong. -- When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah.
    That is called cherry-picking, which in this case is hypocrisy. You basically say that all apostates are wrong yet you admit yourself that there are problems within the organization that you are trying to protect. For the last part I say that the elders use your ignorance against you. You accept that "Jehovah is controlling things", while in reality you are dedicating your life to an organization that has a one goal and one goal only: to make free and legal slave labor and get as many tax-free donations as possible before it dries out. This is done using the God (Jehovah) and the Bible.
    In your case, you are not enjoying your lives even after coming out of JWs --What did those who declared: “we should kill Lazarus also” gain? (John 12:10) You can easily dismiss Lazarus episode as fictional. Yet history has enough examples of attacking the good just because they are good.
    How can you speak for all the members of this community? I personally have been enjoying my life so much more after I left. Maybe you should try this before you judge us? We have tried your way, while you haven't tried ours. Take distance to the organization for a year. People who were in said, after I recontacted them, that I had changed to better, thus something is going on within the organization. Some here might be speaking for all the witnesses but majority are not. If you or any other witness truly believe that you are deep down happy in your heart, who are we to judge? That's a great thing then! Religion is doing what it is supposed to be doing, but I really doubt that majority of witnesses is feeling this way.

    These "good people" you speak of are usually killed because they are seen as a threat to the money/power going on within the stuff they are fighting for. Kill the starter and you will destroy the problem. Organization is trying (and would, if it was legal*)
    to kill apostates off because they are a serious problem to their company imago, legal and free slave labor and tax-free donations.

    * "We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. “Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.”—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Although it has been covered, I will pile on with my take on the opening post:

    1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic)

    I could say that too, but real help transforming can come from better sources. In my case, while I stopped drinking (with almost no falling off the wagon) for Jehovah, I was also hindered from getting the counseling I needed to deal with root issues (suicide attempt) because I was led to believe that Jehovah loved me and brought me to the help I needed. I could have been much further along if I didn't get sidetracked by the cult. Go to real help. Any bullshit religious crap can transform your life the way JW's do. Maybe you could become a monk on a mountain and move a mound of dirt with a teaspoon all day to learn humility and dignity, but learning that Jehovah has a purpose for you to enrich a publishing company is garbage.

    2) Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world. But JWs have successfully done it in all their Offices throughout the world for over a century. This is no insignificant accomplishment as this has the potential to solve virtually all the problems of the world.

    Equal pay- yeah- slave wages. Even accepting that, what about how they lead the Bethel "Family" members to believe they can stay there after they give the best years of their lives, then boot them out after they didn't save up for retirement? Such an unloving arrangement.

    3) The way they start their day with discussing a spiritual thoughts (Daily Text) puts the members in a good and positive frame of mind empowering them to deal with the challenges of the day ahead. They way they are being trained to talk to objection-raisers and conversation-stoppers gives them good speech mannerism in all avenues of life.

    You are free to start your own day any way you like. As for the rest, it is just reinforcing how you can slave for making a giant printing company richer.

    4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.

    This doesn't make up for the freedoms they take away from members. You will not have a beard, tattoo, pants for women at the Hall, you will not talk to your grandma or granddaughter that left the organization or suffer losing your family, you will not celebrate or share the cake of celebrants of birthdays/holidays, don't vote, YADDA YADDA YADDA.

    5) They effectively invited the attention of the world into the thinking that evolution theory is just a theory believed out of convenience rather than conviction [if it were a principle, all scientists would have unanimously accepted it) and restored many biblical truths which Christendom had obscured (prominent among them is the superiority of Father —at a time when the son was viewed as more prominent than the Father, it was JWs who turned the attention of the world to the normal that The Father is highest of all and son is second in power. Such restorations have the potential to make adherents responsible-minded and good citizens! To accomplish such extra-ordinary things on a global scale, extra-ordinary courage is required.

    They lie about the facts and make members ignorant of the facts and misrepresent science. I won't bother with the religious crap in #5.

    But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy!

    Bull-frigging-crap. Born-in's don't choose such. Even recruits are not told all. Sure, it's buried deep in the doctrine somewhere, but if someone asks- "He chose to have his family shun him" or "They are evil now."

    When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah.

    Men who want to advance stop questioning. Why should "the truth" from God be confusing and why should you have to wait on Jehovah to understand how "this generation" was apparently an overlapping generation that started at 1914?

    In your case, you are not enjoying your lives even after coming out of JWs as you are still worrying about what JWs are doing and attacking them relentlessly ...

    They are still lying to my loved ones and trying to tell them that I am mentally diseased. So I keep up with the chariot somewhat. Also, I am way happier doing this than going to the cult indoctrination sessions so that I would only say that there are more good things than bad about being a JW.

  • paradisebeauty
    paradisebeauty
    Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

    This is totally attainable.The communists did something similar!

  • lsw1961
    lsw1961
    LoveUniHateExams and GrownMidget

    I had already responded to your question in my answer to Cofty and jookbeard. All the five points I presented as good points are really good points which you will agree later if not now. Take your own time and try to view it with an open mind. Humans are designed in a unique way that they can see something as good or bad if viewed from above, totally detached. The more detached you are, the better your vision will be! Try this, and you will be amazed at the results.

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