The Holy Bible proves its inspired accuracy again...

by Derrick 54 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Derrick

  Hello Osarsif, good catch. Sometimes I wonder if trying to reform the organization isn't going to be problematic of a task as if someone attempted to redesign the famous Winchester Mystery House in northern California (i.e., to remove all the blind staircases that end at the ceiling below the next floor, or trying to seal all those trap doors and exits on the upper levels...)? Yes, with all the conflicting dates in and outside the organization it's a wonder we managed to keep our sanity for all those years. ;)
• 

  AlanF

  Hi LittleToe,

  : I prefer to give it the local legend treatment, and enjoy it's rather obvious message that God can kick ass when He so chooses to do so.

  Fair enough.

  : With regards to Jesus references to it, that can be taken a number of ways, too. He sheds no light on whether or not it was global or local.

  Sure he does. I explained why. Why don't you tackle the details? Is it because the devil is in the details?

  : He takes a story which is part of the folklore and applies it to his own ends.

  How do you know that Jesus considered it folklore? This is pure speculation.

  : Is there any evidence of plate-shift, in the whole area?

  Of course. The Dead Sea is in a long, narrow rift valley that's a growing gap between two major plates. That's why there are so many earthquakes in that region. A number of tectonic plates are grinding together in the general region. It's one of the most active areas in the world.

  : Further, the measurements of distance and time may well be skewed for that period, having maybe been translated by Moses or some predecessor. The lifespans of Antediluvian seem unusual, to say the least...

  Such speculation is interesting, but again, I seriously doubt that anyone before about the 19th century would think that the Bible accounts were talking about anything besides normal years.

  It's amazing the lengths to which people who want to retain a belief at all costs will go to get around obvious problems.

  Alternatively, how about a Sci-Fi approach: ...

  That's about as good as the original.

  AlanF
• 

  AlanF

  Derrick said:

  : Therefore, I will cut to the chase and state a few facts which you can dispute, but I honestly believe these facts cannot be successfully disputed by anyone:

  Sure they can. Watch:

  • All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial to all. The Holy Bible was written by men who freely gave themselves to the task of its writing because God inspired them.

  All of the Koran is inspired of Allah and beneficial to all. The Koran was written by the Prophet who freely gave himself to the task of its writing because Allah inspired him.

  Substitute any other term for "God" and you get the same answer.

  • The global flood was not a local event. Water covered all landmasses worldwide, drowning all except Noah, his family and the life they brought aboard the seaworthy vessel. God inspired Noah and his family to build this vessel and they carried this project our as an act of faith. ...

  There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that a global flood has occurred in the last several billion years. There is massive evidence that no such flood occurred.

  • At some unknown point in time God's glorious kingdom will reign supreme over the entire universe and through spacetime, and those who insist on following Satan and his demon angels will be destroyed.

  At some unknown point in time AlanF's glorious kingdom will reign supreme over the entire universe and through spacetime, and those who insist on following You Know and his demon hordes will be destroyed.

  Do you get the point, Derrick?

  : This is the "naked truth"

  No, it's only what you'd like to be the truth. Since your 1st and 3rd points above are nothing but unfounded speculation, and the 2nd is demonstrably false, you're free to say you can believe anything you like, but if you claim your myths are facts, you're going to be challenged.

  : and like in the days before the flood many people poke fun at these facts.

  Irrelevant, since there was no such thing.

  : Some people I know extend their refusal to believe in that which they cannot feel, touch and sense, not only by claiming God and the Bible are fiction. I have even heard people poke fun at physicists by arguing that other dimensions beyond our own cannot possibly exist because if they did, you could see them. You can't see God, so he doesn't exist... similar "logic" was used in more primitive times.

  That's correct, but the fact that you can't see something doesn't make it exist -- which is what you'd like to believe. Your logic is twisted, Derrick.

  AlanF
• 

  LittleToe

  Alan:
  Ok, if you want to debate, I'm game. I'm not a fundamentalist, so it should be intersting to see where this goes...

  The Lukian account (Luk.17) also takes in the time of Lot, which is obviously a localised event/story.
  Jesus is using the examples of the stories of Noah and Lot to typify a future event.
  He isn't arguing for any details, other than the oblivious nature of people at the time of the events (past and future), and the "suddenness" of his return.

  Do you have evidence to the contrary?

  It's amazing the lengths to which people who want to retain a belief at all costs will go to get around obvious problems.

  My friend isn't a believer, and it was he who postulated the age thing.
• 

  AlanF

  LittleToe said:

  : Ok, if you want to debate, I'm game. I'm not a fundamentalist, so it should be intersting to see where this goes...

  I wasn't asking you to debate, but simply to answer my questions. Nevertheless:

  : The Lukian account ... Do you have evidence to the contrary?

  Of what?

  : My friend isn't a believer, and it was he who postulated the age thing.

  Sure, but because he isn't a believer, he doesn't believe for a minute what he postulated. Believers who propose all sorts of speculations to get around factual problems certainly do have a measure of belief -- otherwise there'd be no point in putting forth the speculation.

  AlanF
• 

  Singing Man

  I belive kind a like the Mormons say "I belive the bible as far as it is translated properly" at the moment. Its dificult to belive much though so much of it is so sloppy when it comes to learning about God through the bible.
• 

  Aztec

  "At some unknown point in time AlanF's glorious kingdom will reign supreme over the entire universe and through spacetime, and those who insist on following You Know and his demon hordes will be destroyed"

  I look forward to this glorious kingdom! Please tell me more.

  ~Aztec
• 

  simwitness

  I have been enjoying this thread, as I do all threads were alanF, littleToe and others debate freely a topic, but I would like to address my thoughts on the questions, or "facts" that Derrick posted:

  All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial to all. The Holy Bible was written by men who freely gave themselves to the task of its writing because God inspired them.

  The "Holy Bible" as we know it today was not written by men. It was compiled by men. The "Holy Bible" is a collection of independant stories/writings. The stories/writings that were used were written by men, and later determined, by men, to be inspired. It is my opinion that those "inspired men" that wrote the various books were doing it as a cause to history, or the passing of stories, and had no inclination that there writings would outlive them to gain the status of "inspired of god" writings.

  Beyond that, one has to truly qualify what "inspired" means, and what that qualification to a writing gives it. I have heard many an inspired story, by many people.

  What still amazes me about this "collection of inspired stories" is what is left out of it. We have writing attributed to actual apostles/disciples (Thomas) that was left out. Who are we to say that those writings are of less inspiration than those that were included? Why were some of Paul's letters placed as inspired and included while others were not? Were you aware that the book of Revelation was debated on as to it's inspiration? What was the goal of the Nicean council when it voted on the canon? what happened to the dissenters? Who formed the council and for what pourpose?

  Do you really think that the person that wrote the scripture "All Scriptures are inspired..." was really reffering to his OWN writings? Or even other writings that were floating about at the time?

• The global flood was not a local event. Water covered all landmasses worldwide, drowning all except Noah, his family and the life they brought aboard the seaworthy vessel. God inspired Noah and his family to build this vessel and they carried this project our as an act of faith. (Yes, I agree that Christians need faith in the things unseen until revealed as reality.) If anyone has seen the movie "Waterworld" (well worth renting IMO) the flood in the days of Noah was that catastrophic and worldwide of an event.

  The Global flood was a non-event. If the story serves any pourpose it is about putting faith in god and his abilities. But face it, if God was all that powerful, would he really have needed to drown the evil? Couldn't he have just waved his hand and "poof" the evil was gone? The story serves as a warning to those that don't listen to "God's spokesperson" (in this case Noah) that they will be punished for not listening to a hard to believe story.

And anwer this for me, please. Exactly how are we to determine who God's Spokepserson is? By their (the person's) word alone? This is exactly the reasoning that has enslaved men to the church for centuries.

At some unknown point in time God's glorious kingdom will reign supreme over the entire universe and through spacetime, and those who insist on following Satan and his demon angels will be destroyed.

Great, well that all nice to believe in. Personally, I think God would want me to worry about what I do in the here and now, and not be spending all of my time worrying about "some unknown point in the future". Isn't that the real poiint of the parables?