My thoughts on Mexican immigrants

by czarofmischief 25 Replies latest social current

  • Jim_TX
    Jim_TX

    Ummm... I'm not sure what types of jobs you guys have, but I have been the 'victim' of jobs going 'overseas'.

    The last company that I truly worked for, was back a couple of years ago. It was bought by a firm in Israel, who then decided to move their engineering to Israel.

    Other jobs here in this country that I would normally do (Electronic CAD - PCB Layout & Design), are also going overseas - to places like China and India.

    Why? Because the engineers in those countries are willing to work for lower wages than Americans here.

    Just take a look at Silicon Valley... or Silicon Hills (Austin, TX) and you will see a graveyard of companies that didn't make it... and NO... it isn't due to 9/11 or the Enron scandal... or any other idiotic excuse you can dream up. Those things didn't help, though.

    As for Americans not WANTING to do those jobs that you described in your earlier post... well, one does what one HAS to do to survive. I personally put in an application to work at Pizza Hut a while ago - after being out of work for a bit - desperate to have ANY sort of income!

    It must be nice to be employed right now - and having a good enuf income to play 'armchair quarterback' in politics.

    Regards,

    Jim TX

  • Stacy Smith
    Stacy Smith

    Jim I think you're ontrack here. Many of my parents neighbors have lost jobs and some their homes due to Nafta. Add to that the idea that the main idea of allowing Mexican immagrants to feely enter so we can pay them substandard wages and take advantage of them just warms my heart.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I don't know how pensions are funded in the USA, but if like Europe, tax money goes to pay pension costs, YOU NEED IMMIGRANTS.

    European and Americans are just not breeding fast enough; the popluation is 'greying'. Within twenty years time the proportion of people working will be too small to pay for the proportion of people claiming pensions.

    We need foreigners to pay for our retirement, or to be precise, their children to pay for our retirement.

    Very very simple.

  • Xandria
    Xandria

    American workers know what has happened to them because of NAFTA: loss of jobs and a decline in living standards. How could NAFTA have such a devastating impact on American workers?

    In 1993, the year before NAFTA was passed, the U.S. had a $1.7 billion trade surplus with Mexico. This means that Mexicans were buying more American goods than Americans were buying from Mexico.

    After NAFTA, however, the situation was reversed. American business fled to Mexico in search of lower wages and lax labor and environmental regulations. They produced goods in Mexico to sell in the U.S. Our trade surplus with Mexico became a $16.2 billion dollar trade deficit .Due to this trade deficit, the U.S. has lost over 250,000 jobs.
    When workers lose their jobs because a plant relocates to Mexico, they usually experience a serious decline in their standard of living, even if they get new jobs. Workers rehired after losing their jobs in the early 90's suffered an annual pay loss of over $4,400.
    Corporations use NAFTA as a bargaining chip to limit union organizing and keep wages down.

    As bad as NAFTA has been for jobs, it may have damaged wage levels even more
    During the debate over NAFTA, a Wall Street Journal poll found that a majority of executives from large companies already had plans to shift some production to Mexico and that a large number intended to use NAFTA "as a bargaining chip to keep down wages in the U.S." This trend continues. According to a recent study, in more than half of union organizing drives, the threat of moving jobs to Mexico or closing plants was used to limit organizing success.

    NAFTA contributes to a corporate strategy-investment overseas, production cutbacks at home and sharp demands for wage and benefit concessions from workers-that has had a devastating impact on American families. Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs, many of them permanently. Communities have been drained of resources and income, and years of accumulated skills have been wasted

    http://www.uniteunion.org/reclaim/politica...afta/nafta.html


    NAFTA did not only affect the US, it affects Canada as well. We are seeing the "benefits" right now.

    There was a time in the early 1900s when immigration was reduced to just a trickle due to the fact that the U.S. wanted time to assimilate the millions of immigrants that were already here. In fact, the doors weren't thrown open wide again until the dreaded 1965 immigration act that has brought us the terrible problems we face today. Couple that with what is going on with NAFTA...

    So you can understand~ Mexico needs to stand on it's own. The People need to be given tools to forge their own STRONG Government on thier own with out invading some one elses nation. Americans would be wise to reverse the tide by supporting organizations that strengthen the education process to Mexicans while they are in Mexico. Encourage them to strengthen their own areas in their own country . Other wise the following will speed up. Unless it is stopped...


    " Globalization " is the buzzword that appears numerous times throughout Mexico's plan. To achieve that goal, the Mexican government is counting on its citizens living abroad to strengthen Mexico's influence throughout North America.

    The Mexican government is demanding that we give all Mexican illegals a free pass, and also support them with numerous social services paid for by American taxpayers. Some of these - like free medical care -- we do not even provide to our own citizens.

    Mexico's plan specifically outlines its intent concerning Mexican citizens who have entered the United States illegally in a subsection titled " Defense Of Mexicans Abroad ." The plan states:

    "It is important to note that even if Mexico has achieved a number of agreements and mechanisms to ensure better treatment of our countrymen abroad, the issue of migration, especially in the United States, needs a new focus over the long term to permit the movement and residence of Mexican nationals to be safe, comfortable, legal and orderly, and the attitude of police persecution of this phenomenon must be abandoned and it must be perceived as a labor and social phenomenon."

    In other words, nothing is illegal and we are not a nation of laws any more, only markets.

    In a television interview in 2000, Mexico's President Vincente Fox made his country's intentions clear concerning the balance of power in the Western Hemisphere:

    "I'm talking about a community of North America, an integrated agreement of Canada, the United States, and Mexico in the long term, 20, 30, 40 years from now. And this means that some of the steps we can take are, for instance, to agree that in five years we will make this convergence on economic variables. That may mean in 10 years we can open up that border when we have reduced the gap in salaries and income."
    In other words, his stated long-term goal is the abolition of the border between the US and Mexico.

    This is what Clinton allowed with the Formation of NAFTA.

    This is a polite way of saying an end to America's distinct nationhood, i.e. to our nationhood, period. We are to be dragged down to the level of the corrupt, impoverished, backward, crony-capitalist disaster - a nation whose citizens evaluate quite honestly by fleeing at the rate of millions per decade - on our southern border.

    On the surface, Mexico's globalist vision for economic unity seems innocent, but it's likely to create a very dangerous situation for America. Unlike our nation of mixed nationalities with various loyalties, Mexicans are extremely nationalistic , and they usually side with their homeland first on all issues. Considering that Hispanics are now the largest minority group in America at 12.6 percent, and Mexicans make up half of that population, the Mexican government is well on its way to wielding significant influence over U.S. policy by relying on the loyalties of their 18 million dual citizens.

    Another disturbing section of Mexico's National Plan concerns the government's effort to set up illegal immigrants with special identification cards, allowing them to open bank accounts and acquire driver's licenses anywhere in the United States. Basically, any Mexican illegal alien can walk into the nearest Mexican consulate with $29 and walk out with a " consulate card ". These cards are officially recognized in Mexico allowing illegal immigrants to operate on both sides of the border. Although the cards have been available for many years, they have not been officially recognized in America as proper identification until recently .

    In 2001, the reliably-ultraliberal San Francisco combined city and county government unanimously passed a resolution to accept the consulate card as official personal identification. Since that first resolution, law enforcement agencies and municipalities throughout California and other parts of the United States, have also gone on to make exceptions for illegal Mexicans by accepting the cards.

    This is the first step toward making Mexican border jumpers legal by giving them blanket amnesty, something Vincente Fox has openly called for during immigration talks with the United States. ( Part of NAFTA)

    With a sagging economy and many unrealized campaign promises, Mexico's leader is fighting for his political life inside what is essentially a third world country. Now, with his old friend and "Border Buddy" President Bush firmly in tow, Vincente Fox is pushing for the eventual abolishment of the US-Mexico border. Such easing of border restrictions would serve as a release valve for the most desperate unemployed Mexicans, thus relieving Mexico's financial obligation to support its' poorest citizens. Moreover, free movement across the border would allow Mexican workers to earn their money in the U.S. and spend it back in Mexico.

    Just as their national plan dictates, the Fox administration is also encouraging Mexican immigrants to officially participate in Mexican politics from within the United States. In 2001, Mexico passed a law allowing dual citizenship for any Mexican national living abroad, legal or otherwise. In addition, Fox visited California several times this year to campaign for stronger absentee ballot turnouts on behalf of all the Mexican nationals living in the United States. Their dual citizenship law is a major weapon in Mexico's battle for a piece of the American political pie, but it's only part of an infiltration campaign that started many years ago.

    Furthermore, the 2000 presidential campaign proved just how important the Hispanic vote is to politicians on the national front . From day one of the campaign, then Texas Governor, George W. Bush, dragged his half Hispanic nephew, George P. Bush to every media event that might garner a sizable Hispanic audience . The plan worked so well that today George W. Bush is described in many Latin American circles as " America's first Hispanic president " a strange title for a guy who once referred to Mexico's national language as "Mexican" instead of Spanish.
    Indeed, Bush's relationship with Mexico and Vincente Fox goes back long before his bid for the presidency. The two were Governors at the same time, and they met regularly over the years concerning various issues including border security, energy production, and trade policy . Then during Bush's first year as president, he and Fox met four times to discuss US - Mexican relations.

    In the fall of 2001, Bush publicly mentioned the possibility of a new amnesty program for Mexican illegals, but things cooled dramatically after the 911 attacks. Today however, Bush and Fox are back on the fast track to negotiating Mexico's plans for economic and political expansion.

    After the latest meeting of the US-Mexico Binational Commission (BNC) on November 26, the U.S. State Department confirmed that cabinet members from both sides signed a number of important agreements. One agreement that stands out is the " Bilateral Income Tax Treaty" that amends an existing bilateral income tax treaty between the two nations, thus allowing significant reductions in taxes on dividends, which officials say "will further facilitate cross-border trade and investment." If fully ratified by both nations, this treaty will allow major corporations to invest in either country without being taxed at home on profits earned from across the border, thus merging our economies one step beyond NAFTA.

    There is no doubt the Latinization of America is well underway, and Mexico is slyly laying the groundwork that could eventually destroy the security of our southern border. Furthermore, it's no big secret that many Mexicans dream of reclaiming the land lost to America as a result of the Mexican-American War. Ever since that agreement took effect in 1845, numerous Mexican government officials have openly called for " Reconquista ," a political plan to recover the land they believe was unjustly stolen by the American government.
    Frankly, the official plan of Mexico is closer to a plan of colonization than it is to a plan of development. Just as their national plan clearly dictates, the Mexican government is preparing for an attack on America -- an attack perpetrated through ideology and assimilation rather than with bullets and blood.

    The self-hating political correctness of mainstream Americans, combined with their history-blind confidence that the United States is a nation invulnerable to territorial loss, continues to aid and abet this aggression.


    That is why I have been bitching about NAFTA and the US's involvement in Mexico's Government. It has brought us to this point. So the laws have to change and soon. It is no longer about "Illegal" Immigration it is about Illegal Colonization in the name of free trade.

    There has to be a balance or we may have push the people to reconstruct a working "for the people Government" or close the borders.

    No one had heard of Chiapas until January 1, 1994, when the EZLN seized government offices in the state capital of San Cristobal and five other surrounding towns. Now the Zapatistas are world re-known and their demands are heard by no less than the Mexican Congress. What a change seven years and a new president can make.

    But the Zapatistas are just the tip of the iceberg of indigenous activism in Mexico, a country where roughly ten percent of the population is of pure Indian descent. Similar movements exist and have existed for years in Oaxaca, Michoacán, and Puebla, among other states, whose members have fought for more government representation, economic opportunities, and the right to retain their culture.

    The town of Huehuetla, in the central state of Puebla, is one of them, where the formation of the Independent Totonac Organization (OIT) is creating waves in local politics and threatening to upset the centuries-long disequilibrium of power relations between mestizos and Indians. It is also an agricultural, political, and cultural movement that is trying to revive the centuries-old traditions of Totonac Indians while encouraging exportation of local crops such as coffee, pepper, and oranges on an international level.


    So there is now a strong military presence in Mexico . It is the Government re-enforcing it's position. The US has had the habit of involving itself in the politics of Mexico since the 1800's. But now they involved themselves in a way that is dangerous,through NAFTA.

    After NAFTA went into effect, Mexico fell into serious social, political and economic crisis. The Mexican peso lost 50% of its value; the government was nearly bankrupt . An armed uprising in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas highlighted the country's economic, geographic and racial divisions. Political assassinations and allegations of corruption continue to undermine faith in the political system at the highest levels of government.

    Defenders of NAFTA claim that the economic crisis in Mexico was not caused by NAFTA, but rather by Mexico's currency crisis. But, to ensure NAFTA's passage, the U.S. government supported a corrupt and financially incompetent political regime in Mexico. The Mexican government stalled on the necessary currency adjustments in order to attract U.S. investment and capital.

    The Mexican economic crisis is characterized by two broad trends. Many Mexican manufacturers have gone bankrupt, resulting in the loss of over one million jobs in Mexico. Meanwhile, there has been an increase in foreign-owned manufacturers that export mostly to the United States.

    There has been a tremendous increase in the number of maquiladora plants-foreign owned plants that receive special tax breaks and export almost all of their production to the U.S.-and an almost 50% increase in the maquiladora work force since NAFTA began. According to the Mexican government, the maquiladoras employ more than 800,000 workers. These plants are exempt from tariffs on imported raw materials and components as long as the final product is exported. The wages workers earn at these jobs make it almost impossible to raise a family in Mexico, in the US, and in Canada.

    http://www.providence.edu/polisci/projects...stas/nafta.html

    http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACFF2.PDF

    http://www.fairtradewatch.org/nafta/

    http://www.providence.edu/polisci/projects...stas/nafta.html



  • simplesally
    simplesally

    I think there is a big difference between legal aliens, with residence cards and work permits and ILLEGAL aliens. Illegal immigrants do NOT help our Social Security funds. The thing is, you have your broadminded opinions and we Californians, Texans and other border states are the ones that foot the medical and welfare bills.

    From the http://fairus.org webesite: "Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.

    Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.

    Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland."

    So, if the majority of the USA wants this to happen, give California and other border states Federal funds to pay the costs to have this cheap labor.

  • Badger
    Badger

    As a Native American, I favor the deportation of all illegal immigrants retroactive to 1492.

  • simplesally
    simplesally

    Badger, even though I believe the Native American population got a raw deal, for the most part they ignorantly sold the land to people who wanted to live here. There were no immigration laws then. And after they sold land to the "white man" they did acknowledge that that was where the "white man's" houses were. I don't want to argue about how the US gov't screwed them over because nowadays we have borders, governments and written laws that are plainly being disobeyed and some are being made to pay for it, its just a different issue. Basically, if the Mexicans want to come here: they can, just do it legally.

  • Stacy Smith
    Stacy Smith
    We need foreigners to pay for our retirement, or to be precise, their children to pay for our retirement.

    We don't need foreigners as these since they normally work under the table and don't pay taxes. They are a drain on our system, not a help.

  • Badger
    Badger

    Simple Sally: It was all meant in jest. Yes, did get screwed. No, It wasn't right. Yes, since I'm part white, it's a contradictory statement. No, the past shouldn't be a excuse for current failures. Yes, It can be a small factor. No, we shouldn't forget it, either.

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    The fact that these Mexican immigrants are a PLUS to our economy is a fact. They do the jobs that nobody else wants to do. As for working under the table, MOST of the people I know of all races prefer to work under the table - because the taxes on personal income are ridiculous. The solution to getting them on the tax rolls is not excluding them - because that is impossible. They are here, and they are here to stay, and no amount of laws or efforts to deport them can prevent it. What we can do is MAKE THEM LEGAL and therefore a greater percentage of them will be registered to paying the various tax burdens, both STATE and FEDERAL. Yes, illegal immigrants ARE a drain on the economy, because they don't pay taxes. Technically, even a natural-born American is a "drain" if he's not paying all his taxes. Therefore, declare amnesty, get them registered, get them paying taxes!

    The US needs MORE workers, working minimum wage jobs, and paying taxes, just to keep up with SS expenditures. Who cares if they spend it in Mexico or the US? The dollar will become even more universal than it already is. The Social Security system was designed with the idea that there would always be MORE workers than retirees. Thanks to medical advances and greying populations, mentioned elsewhere, we need immigrant workers.

    No, I don't live in the border states. I do, however, work a low wage job, have worked all my life in restaurants with minorities and immigrants, some of which were illegal. I'm sorry if working at Pizza Hut is beneath you - but take comfort that your high-tech jobs did not disappear because of NAFTA. These MEXICAN immigrants - a country that I think we can afford a special immigration relationship with - will be working low wage jobs as dishwashers precisely because they can room with two or three friends and be able to send a couple of hundred dollars home - where it is worth a lot more.

    I'm not interested in the hypothetical futures presented here, where American culture is subsumed by some kind of "brown tide" from the south. Such Malthusian prophecies inevitably fall short of expectation, and reveal the real reason that some are afraid to open the border. I wonder how much of the "concern" about these immigrants economic standing is based on old-fashioned xenophobia? I would have thought that we would have had enough of such apocalyptic hyperbole in the Borg.

    The lengthy article claimed that NAFTA wrecked both the Mexican and United States economies. I hope it is easy to see that these claims are contradictory.

    Things change, people. You cannot hold back the world. China, the most xenophobic country in the world, is starting to crack, bit by bit. Yes, our culture will change, probable drastically as a result of an initiative to open the border. But that's life. It would have happened gradually already if we hadn't tried to close the border.

    A Mexican citizen can come here and get a job. That's my goal.

    CZAR

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