by Gamaliel 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
scholar,
Back on October 7, you said:
I will respond to your response to the historical blunder made by Franz and Jonsson as alleged by me in a couple of days.
(The post was http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/59355/901501/post.ashx#901501 The thread was WTS Chronology(Oslo Hypothesis) from Vicar;Trinity College Fellow,Cambridge.)
You made a claim you couldn't substantiate. Just wondered if you had come up on anything yet.
Gamaliel
Perhaps "scholar" has finally understood his own point: One who can't get simple things right -- like proper accreditation of source references -- can't be trusted to get difficult things right -- such as interpreting ancient biblical texts.
AlanF
Oh No!...what have you two started...
I just heard the noise of flushing toilets in Sydney and I suspect that Scholar will soon reappear having dealt with the problem of his Seventy-Years of Constipation.
HS
Three riders searching in the purple sage, guns loaded, looking for a weasel. The weasel is in his hole, wondering if he should take the risk getting his head blown off on another tour of duty.
The weasel is confused. You see, he was under the impression that his truth was the best that there was. He knew that with it, he could beat anything else. Yet, these scoundrels, these wasters cannot be put to flight with it. He checks his bullets. There is gunpowder in them, isn't there? They couldn't be blanks, or could they?
SS
Ooooohhhhh!!! What a juicy start to the new week!
tick.....tick.....tick....(Waiting for scholar to arrive at work)
HS
I couldn't resist. Guess i'm a monkey, after all.
SS
Gamaliel
Thank you for the reminder. At present I am in the midst of preparing two research papaers that need to be submitted mid November, Yes, I believe that Jonsson and Franz have made a historical blunder which renders the Jonsson hypothesis as worthless. The fact of the matter is that the claim that John Aquila Brown did not connect the seven times with the Gentile Times is frankly stupid. The Society in its Proclaimers book stated that a connection of these events was made by Brown and is supported by Brown's description on page 208 of Brown's Eventide. Franz in his earlier edition namely 2nd., 1992 (1994) agrees with the Society's position as explained in his review of the Proclaimer's book on page 367. Franz has later corrected corrected himself in deference to Jonsson in the current editions of CoC.
In addition, Penton in his history of Jehovah's Witnesses as Apocalypse Delayed,1988, p.21 also is in agreement with the Society's position of the connection of the Gentile Times and the seven times. However, his footnote to this information again defers to the Jonsson blunder. Penton also is in agreement with Barbour that the connection was made by Brown.
In fact, I sent several emails regarding this historical blunder to both Franz and Jonsson before posting this information on this board. Their replies regarding this matter were unsatisfactory and ignored the Society's expanation as I had outlined to them.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
Those letters again!
scholar,
Well feel free to inform us of your reasons either in this thread or the thread where you originally said you would deal with it. There is no real urgency, of course, but the information that Alan provided directly contradicts your claim and that of the Proclaimer's book. Alan's information comes directly from John Aquila Brown's "Even-Tide". So I'm not sure what you mean about something else on page 208.
It appears that you are missing something. Carl Jonsson made some statements that turned out to be exactly accurate. The Proclaimer's book made some statements that according to the original sources, appear very inaccurate. I certainly hope you will present what you mean, because as of now, it appears that you are stretching the truth and then feigning ignorance of the actual point in context, to try to support a "connection" that isn't a "connection". Tell me that this isn't what you are doing, because as you have presented it so far, it gives every appearance of dishonesty.
You are damaging your credibility further, the longer you leave us with this as your only argument to date:
Yes, I believe that Jonsson and Franz have made a historical blunder which renders the Jonsson hypothesis as worthless. The fact of the matter is that the claim that John Aquila Brown did not connect the seven times with the Gentile Times is frankly stupid. The Society in its Proclaimers book stated that a connection of these events was made by Brown and is supported by Brown's description on page 208 of Brown's Eventide.
I'm sure you see why this is inadequate and I was afraid for a minute that you were presenting this as your actual argument. I think it is possible to make an argument that the Society in Proclaimer's thought there was a connection, and in some perverse sense, there was a connection in that they were mentioned together so that no one would misunderstand or misinterpret him and accidentally see them as connected. (In other words, Brown connected them only in the sense of saying the 7 (2520) times are not connected with the Gentile (1260) Times.)
Even if you could argue the word connection in some perverse sense that makes it mean the opposite of the author's intention, I still don't see how you can argue your main point. Your main point, you said, was to show that it "renders the Jonsson hypothesis worthless." Everyone can see that Jonsson was much more accurate and his statement does not require the "sleazy and perverse" twisting of the meaning of the author.
How does showing that Jonsson was more accurate than the Proclaimer's book make Jonsson's "hypothesis" worthless?
Gamaliel
Gamaliel
The issue comes down to credibility and throroughness in research which on these issues, Jonsson fails because if he is unable to interpret modern history then how is he competent with the interpretation of ancient historu? Neither Jonsson or Alan F realized that p.208 in the Eventide is the 'smoking gun' which clearly indicates an association or connection of both 'times'. Jonsson raised this issue as a platform in his original thesis which dealt with a history of the Gentile Times teaching and was later contradicyed by the Society, Franz, Penton and Barbour.
scholar
