Wage discrepancies between the lower class with the upper class.

by William Penwell 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  lastcall

  I like these posts.. all thought provoking. But getting back to the original thought. American CEO's make 450 times what their workers do. I'm sorry but this is way out of whack, reguardless of how much education one has. While some were investing their time and money in 10 or more years of additional education , what were those other "working class" people doing, watching "Oprah"? No, they were working , educating themselves with real world experience, and too, many of them were going to some sort of school as well. The divide is just plain unjustified in my view. I mean, how much money does one person as part of a large, and profitable ( or in many cases unprofitable) corporation really earn ?

  In my line of work, I have talked to many of these ceos, cfos, and coos. Guess what. many of them aren't that smart. Some of them are. But I would have to say that most of them don't have any more in the way of natural, or schooled abilities than the average poster on this board.

  One additional thought, If tomorrow all of corporate officers and all of the directors of the boards stayed home, would the world miss a beat?

  Now, what if just 5% of the Utility workers, home builders, police and fireman, maintenance workers, heavy equip operators, welders, waitresses, garbage collectors, and bus drivers stayed home tomorrow? hmmm...
• 

  lastcall

  Oh.... and WillI agree with much of what you say. Your point about these officers stealing from their companies, and by extension their employees, investors, and customers is really something people need to consider. There was a story to day about a Tyco executive who stole 600 million from the corporation. Entered in evidence today was a video tape of a 2 million dollar birthday party he threw for his wife (with stolen money). I wonder how many healthcare insurance premiums for Tyco workers could have been payed or greatly reduced with that party money.

  Ellemona, I understand some of the points you are trying to make, but the differences are just too out of proportion to be justified.Working people don't feel that they should make anything close to the president of their corporation, but I don't think they feel he should make 50 million a year and get a 20 million dollar bonus in the same year that the company dereases healthcare benefits and increases the share of the premium that the worker pays. It is immoral. The divide is just too great.

  And if you ask me the corporate theif is much more reprehensible then the poor bastard who brakes into your trailer to steal your dvd player. (save the murder of course).
• 

  William Penwell

  lastcall,

  In my line of work, I have talked to many of these ceos, cfos, and coos. Guess what. many of them aren't that smart. Some of them are. But I would have to say that most of them don't have any more in the way of natural, or schooled abilities than the average poster on this board.

  Over the years I have met a number of ceos, that are not all that bright but only got the postition because of who they know not what they know.
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  lastcall

  Very true, networking they call it. The biggest value of being priveledged enough to go to a prestigious prep school and a prestigious university isn't just the education you get, but more importantly, the people you meet and network with. They do take care of their own. But that said, let me say this: Let them have their weath and prestige, but not at the current scale. Not on the blood( literally), sweat and tears of those who actually make the world turn, while boning them out of the basics of modern society.
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  William Penwell

  Again I am not saying that I believe everyone should be making the same money. I took time to educate myself so I could get a better paying job and it did pay off in the end. As far as the argument that you should get paid what your worth, does it make sense that a man that hits a ball with a stick is paid more than a brain surgeon. Who is the one that contributes more to society? So where is the justice here. The way things are going I really feel sorry for our children and grand children. The benefits and wages we have bargained and fought hard for over the past century is slowly being eroded until there will eventually be nothing left.

  Will
• 

  funkyderek

  As far as the argument that you should get paid what your worth, does it make sense that a man that hits a ball with a stick is paid more than a brain surgeon. Who is the one that contributes more to society?

  Paying people based on what they "contribute to society" is a noble sentiment but where does the money come from? Contributing to society does not necessarily generate revenue. Sports stars are paid a lot because they're worth it - not in a moral sense, perhaps, but certainly in a financial one.
• 

  Stacy Smith

  I'm going to college for one reason and that's so I won't be a wage slave. Many of these CEO's that makes millions of dollars a year get their salary mostly through bonus's because the company has made a huge turnaround. Sometimes the company even still exists because of the CEO.

  Regardless you don't have to be a wage slave.
• 

  talesin

  "When I left home, I was 16 (70s) and was able to get a job immediately and make good $$. I had only a grade 10 education, but I didn't have to flip burgers for a living. There was no crack cocaine, no legalized gambling and jobs were plentiful.

  One job I had as a 16-year old was stuffing newspapers - I was paid $6.50/hour. That job now pays $5.50/hour. In some cases, wages have actually gone down and it shocks me!

  The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer - today's youth have to look forward to many years of education just to make a living wage. Then they can live in an apartment, pay 20K for a car, and be a corporate slave so that others can live in fabulous wealth.

  Some guy who can throw/hit a ball gets paid millions, but teachers can't afford their own home."

  My comments from a previous thread, couldn't outline it, the balloons and emoticons have 'disappeared' from my tool bar.

  When I studied a bit of philosophy a few years back, one of the conclusions I came to (and it's not just MY conclusion) is that capitalism eventually implodes on itself.

  What else is supposed to happen when a society is driven by greed?

  Art is not valued in our society - people think you're lazy if you want to paint, sculpt or write poetry. Get a REAL JOB, they sneer. Oh, right a REAL JOB, making money to give to the banks, oil companies, etc. Let's not pay people for creating beauty.

  I fear that it will be more than civil disobedience - our cities are already erupting with violence as the poor get increasingly frustrated with their lot.

  Not everyone can own their own business - where would we get workers? Why should anyone slave 60-70 hours per week so their bosses can be rich, when the worker can barely afford food and shelter?

  The only workers around here who make a decent wage are those who work in unionized shops. Labour is cheap and expendable - skilled or unskilled.

  ... my 2 cents

  t (sorry, no smiley face - not available)
• 

  funkyderek

  Art is not valued in our society - people think you're lazy if you want to paint, sculpt or write poetry. Get a REAL JOB, they sneer. Oh, right a REAL JOB, making money to give to the banks, oil companies, etc. Let's not pay people for creating beauty.

  Maybe things are radically different in Canada, but here in Europe art is highly valued. Works of art are bought and sold for eye-watering amounts. Artists can earn millions from painting or poetry if they're good enough or popular enough.

  Why should anyone slave 60-70 hours per week so their bosses can be rich, when the worker can barely afford food and shelter?

  Precisely because they can "barely afford food and shelter". If they had money, they obviously wouldn't need to work as hard.
• 

  talesin

  Maybe things are radically different in Canada, but here in Europe art is highly valued. Works of art are bought and sold for eye-watering amounts. Artists can earn millions from painting or poetry if they're good enough or popular enough.

  Here in Canada, it's all about marketing. Also, it takes time to develop your craft. The phrase 'starving artist' wasn't coined as a joke! Commercial art is not just the refuge of the nontalented - it is the refuge of those who want basic food and shelter.

  I know lots of artists - the ones who sell are surviving, not making millions (I have one sculptor friend who makes a lot of money - he is Inuit and aboriginal art is highly valued).

  When I was selling my art on the street, I had many people stop and admire my sculptures, tell me how talented, how wonderful, etc., but they can't afford $30 for a piece. Then they turn to their companions and say "well, let's go to McDonalds". They would rather pay $5 at Walmart for a reproduction, and have the extra $25 for fast food. Still, I sold at least one piece a day, so it was enough to survive.

  As for the poets - well, I know several published poets - they have to struggle to survive.

  Except for the very famous (mostly dead) artists, I haven't heard of a lot of painters getting millions for their pieces. There are few famous (living) Canadian painters, Alex Colville, Christoper Pratt, Mary Pratt, Robert Bateman, Ken Darby who are fabulously successful.

  There's a lot of criticism in the art world now about how critics and galleries can 'make' an artist. It's the same as the music biz - it's not the quality of your product, it's who you know that counts.

  So, Funky, I would say you are right. It's strange, I had never heard that - I know a lot of Canadian musicians make $$$ in Europe when they can't get arrested here at home. Didn't know it was true for painters, poets, etc.

  pl&h

  tal