WOULD YOU GIVE THE JW'S THIS? (page 6)

amac

Are these THE standards for good morals OR your opinion about what being moral is? Smoking is not a moral issue, it is a health issue. no violence is a subjective opinion. no sex out of marriage is a modern social construct. What constitutes a strong family? What is lying and stealing? This needs defining. As a peace advocate and married man these may seem odd statements, but they are founded upon an awareness that MY opinions are not the end all of a matter. Many of the standards above can be agreed upon by a majority and yet not merit social censure if others choose to act differently.

Those were obviously my opinion. I think you would be hard pressed to find any "standards" of morals that are accepted worldwide...even down to murder.

You're right , smoking is not a moral issue, i just don't like cigarette smoke.

Violence is a subjective opinion? Opinion? Yes, I think it is morally wrong. Subjective? I'm not sure what confines it to a subjective opinion.

Sex out of marriage a modern social construct? I don't know about modern, but definitely a social and religous construct. Otherwise men wouldn't want to boink everything that walks. It is of my opinion though, that monogamy is better for society.

What constitutes a strong family? Spending time together.

What is lying and stealing? Are you serious? Lying is not telling the truth, and stealing is taking something that does not belong to you.

Many of the standards above can be agreed upon by a majority and yet not merit social censure if others choose to act differently.

I disagree. I would say that they can be agreed on by a majority and some can go without being legislated, but social censure is inevitable. If you steal all the time and live in a society that does think it is OK, you will be socially censured. It is my personal right to censure people who lie, steal, harm others, even smoke if I want.

amac

Imposing a code is not teaching morality.

No it's not, but sometimes they go hand in hand. I believe you mentioned you are a father, so I would guess that you impose some codes in your family in an effort to teach your children. Or does anything go? If you use any form of discipline, then you are imposing codes.

Edited to add: I just noticed that you simply said you are married, so you may not have children and may not relate to my example.

avishai

No to violent crime.

Child molesting is'nt violent? Spousal abuse is'nt violent? These are both things they accept, by telling their cattle to shut up & wait on Jehovah. No to violent crime my ass!!!! Other than that, I guess they make damn good janitors, which is something we need in our society. I'd hire me a JW janitor in a new york minute. Being as their so uneducated as a rule, it's a grand idea. Job security, I don't have to look for another janitor, etc.

amac

Child molesting is'nt violent? Spousal abuse is'nt violent? These are both things they accept, by telling their cattle to shut up & wait on Jehovah. No to violent crime my ass!!!!

If you can't be objective don't bother. To say JWs accept child molesting and spousal abuse is down right ridiculous.

Badger

I wouldn't say the witnesses accept it...but they aren't nearly as just in dealing with it as they should be.

amac

I wouldn't say the witnesses accept it...but they aren't nearly as just in dealing with it as they should be.

I agree with that, but now we are getting off topic as to what good things we would give the JWs credit for.

flower

They get credit for nothing stated above in my opinion. That would be the same as saying "Yes that Hilter was a polite and clean person and he didnt smoke or have sex outside of marraige".

Who cares? He was responsible for millions of deaths and was a sick individual. Does anyone care how great a public speaker or whether he was against child rape?

The cult you are trying to find good in is responsible for death and destruction of lives and families. They are responsible for the murder and suicide of countless people. They cause thousands to cry themselves to sleep each night wondering if tomorrow Armageddon will come and they wont have lived up to standards well enough to make it through. They rip babies from the loving arms of the grandparents many of whom will never lay eyes on them again. They are responsible for the severe depression, social phobia, and mental illness of thousands of people. And you want to say 'yes but they are such fine upstanding citizens who pay taxes and dont lie....'

Hope this isnt too harsh..Nothing personal but Give me a break..

Swan

So, for just a second, try to be objective and compartmentalize your disgust in the WT. Realizing they have many, many negative aspects that are not justified by their positive aspects, the question remains the same, "What "good thing's" would you be willing to give the Jw's credit for?????"

Pudding! I loved their chocolate pudding at the district assemblies!

Tammy

amac

Talk about melodrama...

That would be the same as saying "Yes that Hilter was a polite and clean person and he didnt smoke or have sex outside of marraige".

Exactly, if someone asked if Hitler had any good qualities to him in addition to his hateful murdering then I would hope someone could be objective enough to say, "yeah, he liked to help little old ladies across the street." Again, it is not meant to be a redemption or justification. You need to mentally seperate those.

And this is complete melodrama...

The cult you are trying to find good in is responsible for death and destruction of lives and families. They are responsible for the murder and suicide of countless people.

So is every other religion.

They cause thousands to cry themselves to sleep each night wondering if tomorrow Armageddon will come and they wont have lived up to standards well enough to make it through.

ditto

They rip babies from the loving arms of the grandparents many of whom will never lay eyes on them again.

You mean they actually "rip" them from their arms? Do they have a special baby stealing task force they send out from Bethel?

They are responsible for the severe depression, social phobia, and mental illness of thousands of people.

Severe depression? I'm sure they contribute to that, but causing it would be debatable. Social phobia? I'd agree with that. Mental illness? I don't think so. You can't make someone have mental illness, they either have it or they don't.

And you want to say 'yes but they are such fine upstanding citizens who pay taxes and dont lie....'

Exactly, that was the point of the thread. If you can't be objective and seperate your feelings on this, than maybe you shouldn't try to contribute to the thread.

morty

I dont smoke now......I could go back to the borg!......NOT!

mortons68

WOULD YOU GIVE THE JW'S THIS?

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