Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-9-03 WT Study

by blondie 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  pamkw

  My mom should enjoy this article, if she even goes this week. She has been in a bad abusive marriage for 35 years. Why does she stay because God wants her too. She is doing the right thing, and standing by (gag) right principles. She says it doesn't matter if she is treated badly, she does not have to be happy, because she will be when the end comes. Nothing is important except the end coming. She will read this article and feel that she is justified and that her marriage is her tribulation for 'the truth'.

  It makes me sick.

  Pam
• 

  Panda

  As always Blondie you have caught the WTS at every sneaky turn. The verse from Matthew is an excellent example of how we were all mislead by the crime of omission. So that's how we were snookered.

  I notice the reference to Noah --- getting everyone ready for the next implied Armegeddon. And all of that "be on the alert" because of persecution... just great now every paranoid schizophrenic will be dub material. Sheesh. Someone needs to email the dubs copies of the Chicken Little story "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" Fox says "come here I'll save you chicken Little" CHOMP chicken dinner.
• 

  blondie

  One day in the summer of 1996 I was serving as a tour guide at one of the large hotels in Niagara Falls

  Frank, we were there around then and a few years later. Rats!

  I wonder why their "apostate" radar wasn't working?

  I couldn't help wondering how they were going to feel when they got back home and started showing around some of the pictures they took, especially those of the entire bus group with me standing in front and at the centre (with my usual big wide-mouthed smile )!

  I wonder if you had "horns" in the picture?

  Blondie (who loves your pic on your website)

  Pam,

  She says it doesn't matter if she is treated badly, she does not have to be happy, because she will be when the end comes. Nothing is important except the end coming. She will read this article and feel that she is justified and that her marriage is her tribulation for 'the truth'.

  Unfortunately, some people get joy out of the bad things that happen to them. I bet she is always telling people what a rough life she has because of his abuse and gains some sympathy. I have heard of people who make bad things happen to themselves when things are going well because they can't handle it emotionally. I wonder how she will know she is a good person or get attention in the new system when everything is going right?

  She makes her choices, Pam, and she gets a reward for it right now.

  Hi Panda,

  Actually, one reason the WTS mentions Noah so much is that he and his family lived during what the WTS calls a "judgment period." People living at the end of them will be judged worthy for everlasting death. If you have WT-CD or access to the volumes you might find that an interesting research project. Other periods include 33 CE to 70 CE (although 97,000 survived the destruction of Jerusalem. The WTS does a "two-step" trying to get by that fact).

  Yes, omitting all the facts is well-used by the WTS.

  Blondie
• 

  Room 215

  Blondie, the WT obsession with ``the coming persecution" blinds most JWs to the fact that in by far the majority of the countries in which they operate, they are accorded a remarkable measure of tolerance and leagal protection; in particularu is this this true in the U.S. and the western democracies. In fact, the courts have ``bent over backwards" in the defense of their constitutional freedoms.

  At the same time, the WTBTS has disengenously portrayed itself to the public as a benevolent civic-minded, socially concerned educational reliigion and champion of tolerance and religious freedom for all. Despite high-sounding pronouncements to the contrary, it's shown it's not above political activism and forged illicit alliances (such as the UN NGO incident) in a bid to appear ``mainstream" and/or to protect its resources.

  In the relatively few countries where they're persecuted, they are usually lumped together with other non-traditional religions, and rarely singled out for attack.

  Far from hatred, the public's reaction to JWs ranges from bemused tolerance tinged with condescension, to moderate annoyance at their ``tiresome message tirelessly delviered."
• 

  jgnat

  Blondie, here is the quote you paraphrased:

  'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.' Niemöller

  Both the quote and the man have an interesting history:
  http://www.liv-coll.ac.uk/pa09/europetrip/brussels/neimoller.htm

  Interesting thoughts on the guilt Christians share by not speaking against atrocity:
  http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/niem/Niem1946GuiltHope13-16.htm
• 

  Pistoff

  Blondie, great as usual. Here is what stood out to me:

  The article stated that the religious leaders falsely accused Jesus of sedition, and brought him up before Pilate.

  Just think of the irony in that reference; they are falsely accusing so many today of slander and causing divisions, when all they are doing is telling the truth about sexual abuse in the organization. They have never believed that the modern day org will have a serious time of deflection or sin, and so they just cannot see it.

  And so they write this slop. MANY have tried to bring the topic of child sexual abuse to the forefront; the WT has "killed" them spiritually by disfellowshiping them.

  How about talking about this persecution of the innocent, WT????
• 

  blondie

  Good comments on the WTS strategy, Room 215. There is also testimony presented to Congress.

  http://www.cesnur.org/testi/EUintolerance_07.htm

  In the relatively few countries where they're persecuted, they are usually lumped together with other non-traditional religions, and rarely singled out for attack.

  The WTS avoids mentioning that. If forced to, they like to downplay any significance.

  Thanks for the complete quotes and websites, Jgnat. I made me think of how the WTS pats itself on the back with regard to the letter to Hitler in 1934 but never mentions the Jews and others that were also being persecuted.

  Pistoff

  , good comment.

  The article stated that the religious leaders

  falsely accused Jesus of sedition, and brought him up before Pilate.

  Just think of the irony in that reference; they are falsely accusing so many today of slander and causing divisions, when all they are doing is telling the truth about sexual abuse in the organization. They have never believed that the modern day org will have a serious time of deflection or sin, and so they just cannot see it.

  Is it because they have the same father as the Pharisees?

  Blondie
• 

  blondie

  More persecution in Turkmenistan:

  Turkmenistan already had the tightest controls on religious activity before this new law came into force (see F18News 2 October 2003 http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=151 ). All Shia Muslim, Baptist, Pentecostal, Adventist, Armenian Apostolic, Lutheran, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witness, Baha'i and Jewish activity was already treated as illegal. Believers have been fined, detained, beaten, threatened, sacked from their jobs, had their homes confiscated, banished to remote parts of the country or deported in retaliation for involvement in unregistered religious activity.

  http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=180
• 

  Leolaia

  Latest news:

  This article was published by F18News on: 24 November 2003

  TURKMENISTAN: President falsely claims no religious prisoners

  By Felix Corley, Editor, Forum 18 News Service

  Under pressure from a draft UN resolution sponsored by the EU and US, the Turkmen president, Saparmurat Niyazov, has defended his record with the claim that Turkmenistan has never had religious prisoners of conscience and cooperates fully with international human rights bodies. However, Forum 18 News Service knows of Jehovah's Witness prisoners and an imam in internal exile. Also imprisoned for his faith was Baptist Shagildy Atakov. Turkmenistan has both consistently failed to cooperate with the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion or Belief and other UN human rights agencies and also has this month introduced a harsh new religion law outlawing all unregistered religious activity, which defies international human rights agreements it has signed.

  Turkmenistan's president, Saparmurat Niyazov, has claimed - wrongly ? that the country has never imprisoned anyone on religious grounds and that it cooperates fully with international bodies on human rights. Forum 18 News Service is aware of six current Jehovah's Witness prisoners - five sentenced for refusing military service on grounds of religious conscience and one on fraud charges believed to have been trumped up - as well as one imam in internal exile. Turkmenistan has also consistently failed to cooperate with the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion or Belief and other UN human rights agencies.

  Three Jehovah's Witness young men were sentenced in May one and a half years' imprisonment for refusing compulsory military service on grounds of religious conscience (Turkmenistan has no provision for alternative service). One young man was sentenced in July on the same charges to one and a half years' imprisonment (See F18News 2 October 2003 http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=151 ).

  An official of the Jehovah's Witness headquarters in the Russian city of St Petersburg told Forum 18 on 24 November that they were not releasing the names or home towns of the four prisoners for fear of making their situation worse. The official said at least one Jehovah's Witness conscientious objector (whom they did not identify) has been subjected to homosexual rape in prison in the past few years and all others have been threatened with the same fate.

  The religious prisoner serving the longest prison term is Jehovah's Witness Kurban Zakirov, sentenced to eight years' imprisonment in 2000 and believed to be held in a labour camp in the Caspian port of Turkmenbashi (Türkmenbashy) (formerly Krasnovodsk).

  http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=194
• 

  blondie

  Yes, that is bad. Many religious groups have been subject to horrible events. I don't not wish it on anyone.. It is too bad that this government doesn't allow alternative service because the WTS allows its members to choose that now. Before 1998, even if alternative service was a choice, a JW could not choose it and would have been at danger in prison. Can you imagine if a JW had been in prison for religious reasons before 1998 and had refused alternative service, was raped, and then saw that article making alternative service okay? I know a brother who stopped going to the meetings because of that.

  Blondie