For those who still believe in God and The Bible, How do you feel/think about the name Jehovah now? I am one who never wanted to bring reproach on God's Name. I will admit using the word Jehovah now makes me feel rather icky...like I am promoting a lie of sorts. We know that isn't the real pronouciation. The word Jehovah, used mostly in association with JWs has become besmeared, leaving a bad taste in my mouth so to speak, what with their CSA and stealing KHs and shady business practices. I have also seen videos about esoteric cults using the name in reference to the devil rather than almighty God. Maybe some of you know more about that subject. I am interested in other's thoughts on the matter. Right now for the most part I am saying our Heavenly Father. but if you are speaking to a JW or ex JW, then they expect you to use the name. It just seems false to me now....( not sure I have explained my sentiment well)
how do you feel about the use of the name Jehovah now?
by enoughisenough 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Duran
We know that isn't the real pronouciation.
The only thing wrong with it is in using the V.
Perhaps it has not been by accident that JWs and others have it wrong because they do bring reproach on it, so they have never been able/allowed to spell/say it correctly.
Jehoshaphat – Jeremiah
Jehoiakim – Isaiah
Jehoram – Nehemiah
Jehoiachin – Zechariah
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יהו Jeho + ה ah = יהוה Jehoah
Jehovahיה Jah - יהוה Jehoah
יהושע Jehoshua
Jesus -
ukpimo
Duran, although this is a clever breakdown, there is a major flaw in your reasoning. You forget that Je is not correct, it should be Yah. So in actuality the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton in Hebrew would be Yah • ho • ah. Other languages are bound to present a lesser variation of the original name. Although I would much prefer my name to be used in English, I wouldn't be butthurt if someone from another land pronounced it differently according to their language, so there is where I do agree with jws, I don't think the Almighty of the Universe will get angry for pronouncing his name as Jehovah in English. Besides, English is a modern language, and it has influences from many other languages.
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FreeTheMasons
God's name existed before human languages existed.
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:1,2)
The Bible speaks of "the tongues of angels," meaning heavenly communication.
No human can pronounce God's name here on earth the same way it is pronounced in heaven, but God is reasonable. He doesn't expect humans to pronounce things the way angels would.
God doesn't expect Greeks to pronounce His name the same way Hebrews would, just like God doesn't expect English speakers to pronounce His name the same way Greeks would.
Jehovah is the One who divided up the languages in the first place after the Babel incident. He knows what His name is, and He knows when someone is calling on Him. He's not partial.
The meaning of His name is what is more important: "He Causes To Become."
But as regards the name Jehovah in English, some people complain about "some monk named Martini made up the name in the 1270s so it's not valid..." and yet those same people fail to acknowledge that English in its present form was not even a thing until between the early 14th to the 17th centuries.
https://www.quora.com/Who-is-credited-with-first-using-the-name-Jehovah-as-a-proper-name-for-God/answer/EasyAddendum?ch=10&oid=1477743814152363&share=9e7d5b97&srid=hy1dvD&target_type=answer
Mythbusters Regarding God's Name Jehovah
The word Jehovah, used mostly in association with JWs has become besmeared, leaving a bad taste in my mouth so to speak, what with their CSA and stealing KHs and shady business practices. I have also seen videos about esoteric cults using the name in reference to the devil rather than almighty God.
That was the goal of the Devil, to blaspheme Jehovah's name so that people wouldn't use it.
Genesis 4:26 records that people have been calling on Jehovah's name in a blasphemous way for a long time: "At that time people began calling on the name of Jehovah." When those esoteric groups mix Jehovah's name in with their false worship it is for the purpose of poisoning their relationships with Jehovah. The individuals mixed up in those esoteric practices are abusing themselves or abusing others or subjecting themselves to abuse while at the same time using God's name, so they eventually grow to associate Jehovah's name with bad things even though He is not the source of any of the bad things they are doing.
It's the same idea with the Watchtower. The Watchtower teaches lies about Jehovah. The disfellowshipping doctrine is a lie. The 1914 things is a lie. There are a lot of things that Watchtower teaches that are lies all the while they claim to represent Jehovah.
Here's the thing: they don't represent Jehovah. They are liars. Liars gonna lie. Their lies don't negate that God's name in English is Jehovah.
You can call him Yahweh if you want; you can call Him Jehovah if you want. He knows you're talking about Him. What matters is calling on Him in faith - in other words, recognizing the meaning of His name, and that He will respond.
I was chatting with someone the other day on another forum about a similar topic. That person was trying to say that Jesus didn't use God's name Jehovah or that it shouldn't be in the New Testament because it wasn't pronounced in Greek, but it was pronounced in Greek.
The Catholic Church has hidden their copies of many manuscripts that have God's name in Greek. (I'm not talking about just the Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton. I'm talking about His name translated into Greek.)
The texts typically used for many English translations today are either the Codex Vaticanus or the Codex Sinaiticus, or the Textus Receptus. The same types of apostates who wove in the hellfire doctrine or the Trinity doctrine are the ones controlling access to those older manuscripts. Those apostates are not to be trusted.
The modern orthodox Judaism tradition also is not to be trusted with giving an accurate account of the history of the use of God's name. The Kabbalistic teachings have been the very doctrines that blaspheme Jehovah's name the most.
There are fragments of transcripts in Greek dating to just prior to the time Jesus was born that have the name Jehovah in Greek. It's not the Hebrew Tetragrammaton; it's a Greek version of God's name. Jesus would have had access to Greek manuscripts with God's name in them. When Jesus taught, he would have used God's name in both Hebrew and in Greek. Thus he showed us by his example that it's okay to use God's name in another language.
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Duran
Duran, although this is a clever breakdown, there is a major flaw in your reasoning. You forget that Je is not correct, it should be Yah. So in actuality the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton in Hebrew would be Yah • ho • ah.
You can use a Y or J and Je/Ye is correct.
[2 Then Joshua (3091. Yehoshua) the son of Nun secretly sent two men out from Shitʹtim as spies. He told them: “Go and inspect the land, especially Jerʹi·cho.”]
[2 And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. (3092. Yehoshaphat)]
יהוה Yehoah/Jehoah
יהושע Yehoshua/Jehoshua
יהושפט Yehoshaphat/Jehoshaphat
And Yah/Jah is only when shortening the whole name, as in Yehoah/Jehoah.
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Vidqun
Enoughisenough, here is another set of videos for you to peruse. A Kairite Jew, Nehemiah Gordon, actually endorses the pronunciation "Jehuwah." Interestingly, he found the pronunciation in over a thousand MSS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vgXMmBst8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA3VKpVP17U&t=439s
But what should be kept in mind:
1) The different vocalization systems are not that old, dating from about 600-800 CE, although they are based on a much older oral tradition.
2) Then there is the Albright-Reisel Hypothesis that suggests that the current pronunciations are all based on either North or South Israelite pronunciation:
Prof. William Foxwell Albright viewed Greek Iaō as a transliteration of the South Israelite (Judahite) Yáhû. According to him, *Yēhou, transliterated by means of Greek Ieû, originated with North Israelite usage. In his book "Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan A Historical Analysis of Two Contrasting Faiths," he quotes the writings of historians to support his hypothesis. E.g. Porphyry mentioned in his writings that Sanchuniathon had compiled a history of the Jews from information received from a priest of the God Ieû, the latter being North Israelite pronunciation of the South Israelite Yáhû (Iaō in Greek).1
Post-exilic times would herald a change. Dr. M. Reisel, pursuing a different line of reasoning, concluded that the “cultic vocalisation of the Tetragrammaton must originally have been YeHuàH or YaHuàH”.2 This would especially have been the case during post-exilic temple worship. Reisel’s conclusion anticipates the outcome of Albright’s hypothesis, hence the name Albright-Reisel Hypothesis.31. W. F. Albright, Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan A Historical Analysis of Two Contrasting Faiths, pp. 262, 263, footnote 155.
2. M. Reisel, The Mysterious Name of Y.H.W.H., pp. 40, 41, 74.
3. S. Ortlepp, The Pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton from a Historico-linguistic Perspective, p. 5.
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stan livedeath
@free the masons
can you remind us of your previous username on this site ?
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Beth Sarim
Its this pale blue book released in the early 1970s.
Which is one of the publications the Borg wanted sent back to the local KHs,,,likely for destruction
Pages 884 & 885 it tallks about how "Jehovah" was invented by a Catholic monk in the 1300s by inserting latin vowels into the tetragramatron.
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Duran
A Kairite Jew, Nehemiah Gordon
נחמיה - Nehemiah (Jehoah comforts)
יהושפט - Jehoshaphat (Jehoah judged)
God's name יהוה YHVH and keeping in mind that Jews read right to left.
For Jeho-shaphat/Yeho-shaphat the letters of God's name used for the pre-fix are יהו YHV.
For Nehem-iah/Nehem-yah the letters of God's name used for the sub-fix are יה YH
(Putting aside that for the English language there was a change of Y to J and Y to I.)
The vowels used for those two names are e,o,a to be used with YHVH.
The V is a placeholder for the vowel's O/U. ( here and here)
When choosing the vowel, it replaces the V, it is not added in addition too.
Example:
Jehoshua, not Jehovshua
Jehoram, not Jehovram
When using the pre-fix יהו YHV in those names, the vowel E is used and the vowel O for replacing the V.In these names with the sub-fix יה YH, the vowel A is used.
JeremiaH
IsaiaH
ZechariaH
Looking at Hebrew names today in English that never stopped being pronounced that contain either the pre-fix or sub-fix of God's name, the vowels they have would have to be the same vowels for God's name.יהוה YHVH + E,O,A = YEHOAH/JEHOAH
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slimboyfat
FreeTheMasons is correct, the Greek pronunciation of God’s name is Yaho and this is perhaps the form of the divine name that Jesus used. I came across this in books by McDonough and Shaw. I wonder where you came across it? Because the textbooks of a previous generation claimed that Jesus didn’t use God’s name.