how do you feel about the use of the name Jehovah now?
by enoughisenough 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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slimboyfat
Very interesting. Vasileiadis is a JW from Greece from what I can gather. His essays are good. I recommend the book by Shaw, The Earliest Non-Mystical Jewish Use of IAW, if you can get your hands on it. He amasses the evidence from various sources for Yaho.
https://www.amazon.com/Earliest-Non-Mystical-Contributions-Biblical-Exegesis/dp/9042929782/
Recently a couple of Evangelicals, John Meade and Peter Gurry, have published a book Scribes & Scripture, where they acknowledge that Yaho was the popular pronunciation of God’s name and are open to the idea that Jesus used this pronunciation. (See page 55) This is an advance on earlier Evangelicals who argued that Jesus would not have used God’s name.
https://www.amazon.com/Scribes-Scripture-Amazing-Story-Bible/dp/1433577895/
Do I gather from what you say that you’re someone who still holds the beliefs of JWs on the divine name but you don’t believe God is using the Watchtower organisation? What are your views on other beliefs, such as Jesus is an angel, future paradise, 1914, blood, the 144,000 and so on? Do you know others in a similar position as yourself? -
FreeTheMasons
The "JW" hierarchy is masonic, just like the other religious hierarchies that publicly claim to teach one thing supposedly based "on the Bible" but then they weave in poisonous doctrines. The Catholic church is a lot like the WT in that way of publicly claiming to be not masonic but then being one of the chief proponents/supports of The Craft.
Many of the so-called "apostolic fathers" were also into mystery religions and/or were influenced by the pharisaical kabbalistic philosophies practiced by unfaithful Jews of earlier centuries. Faithful Jews became Christians.
When Watchtower or other so-called "Christian" groups rely on the teachings of apostate Jews or apostate Christians, the result is a poison pie.
The Bible teaches that God's name means "He Causes to Become." Jesus pronounced God's name in various languages and told us to use God's name. The Bible shows it's okay to pronounce God's name in whatever language we speak. The first century Christians were given holy spirit in a special way to preach in different languages, and they would have used God's name Jehovah in whatever version of speech God made them speak in.
Jesus taught that there would not be some hierarchy organization. All of the churches of Christendom (whether small hierarchies or big ones) are apostate. "For one is your leader, the Christ, whereas you are all brothers."
The direction to the "seven congregations" at the beginning of Revelation is for all those today calling themselves "Christian." We all need to be "refined" and "cleansed" just as foretold in the last chapters of Daniel.
Many words in the Bible that have been translated into English have a different meaning in the original text. Sometimes the translators altered the meaning when they didn't take into consideration the context. The word "angel" can also mean "messenger" or sometimes it means "spirit creature." The context must be considered.
Jesus was the leader of the army of Jehovah who spoke with Joshua back in ancient Israel. He is also Shiloh, and Immanuel, and Michael. He is the spirit creature that was there disputing with the Devil over Moses' body. Jesus rebuked the Devil, and Jesus also said that Jehovah would rebuke the Devil. (A rebuke is showing strong disapproval. We can all rebuke someone. It's not something only Jesus can do.)
The Watchtower 1914 teaching is an obviously false teaching. There is no secondary fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, and if there had been Jesus would have figured it out in the first century. Charles Taze Russell wove pyramid-sun-worship into the Watchtower doctrines in order to blaspheme Jehovah and to confuse people and corrupt their worship.
Jehovah walked with Adam and Eve in the garden. The One who made a body can make Himself a body to visit here in. He's God. In the future, He will again come back to earth to hang out with His kids.
When Moses asked to see Jehovah's glory, he was already talking to Jehovah face-to-face in a materialized body. Moses was asking to see God in His full heavenly way, but God said no flesh-and-blood human can see God in that way and survive the experience, which is why the 144,000 have to be changed first in order to carry out their assignment.
Sex is a really cool thing. It's so cool that the wicked angels were willing to leave their assignment to try it out. What they did was disgusting and wrong, but now they're trying to get some humans to be discontent with their inheritance here on earth and covet life in heaven. The false doctrines spread by the Catholic church and much of Christendom regarding the "everybody goes to heaven" thing is designed to spit in Jehovah's face as regards the wonderful life here on earth He has in mind for his human children.
God is fair. He gives special blessings to everyone. The 144,000 have to sacrifice some cool stuff to do their assignment. But they don't have to sacrifice their relationship with their human friends and family, it just changes a little. Jesus materialized a body after being resurrected as a mighty spirit creature. The 144,000 will do the same. Jesus and the 144,000 will materialize and hang out during the 1000 year reign and forever. The faithful angels of old in some of their assignments materialized too. We are a universal family, and God is not partial. He is healing the family and bringing us all together.
That's why it is said that New Jerusalem comes out of heaven, and the name of the city will be "Jehovah Himself Is There."
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peacefulpete
The OP was asking about the feelings associated with the pronunciation "Jehovah".
Some of the responses so far reveal a deep attachment to the word. One of you outright said,
Jehovah's name is very important to me
That is hardly surprising. Years or decades of reciting and repeating the word has left many former JWs with a lingering fondness/attachment. A scholarly position makes clear that the name in usual form was a two-syllable word. This has been rehashed in great depth on this site. I'm of the opinion based upon the oldest extrabiblical evidence that the earliest form was a single syllable, Yah and likely a geographical element. However, a two syllabic form is certainly ancient and likely a theophoric reference to either his being a storm god "blow' or a 'jealous/passionate' one. There are scholarly arguments for both. It's possible, maybe even likely, they are both correct.
However, the issue for former JWs is not a simple scholarly debate. It's years of indoctrination and cultlike controls embodied in a single word that we thought identified us as special.
Every sect has a language unique to itself that serve as 'trigger words'. Trigger words are special words, or special use of words, that elicit feelings of loyalty, or identity. The word 'Jehovah' is perhaps the biggest example for former JWs. Many exit counselors recommend former members of high control groups avoid the use of trigger words. For that reason, many of use a mocking form of the word like 'Jehober' or for those attracted to scholarship, 'Yahweh'. It helps distance the topic from the emotional burden of the past.
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Syme
My opinion is this: the name Jehovah is one of the hundreds of possible combinations for the Tetragrammaton. But even if it was the 'correct' one, Jesus opened up our view of God into what we now know as the Holy Trinity. Sticking to the Name so exclusively after Christ is basically heresy, as it implicitly (or explicitly in the case of JWs) denies the Trinitarian God by focusing solely on the Father. In any case, the Name was exclusively used (or not so much) by the Jews before Christ. It was never used by Christ or the apostles, despite what the JWs claim. Lastly, the obsession of JWs with using it in every second sentence, even if we leave aside the Trinity, is a gross violation of the Third Commandment.
That being said, I don't consider it a 'verboten' name. I sometimes still utter it in my prayers. I do however think it is misguided to focus exclusively on it.
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FreeTheMasons
@peacefulpete, your assessment of me is incorrect.
I saw Jehovah answer my prayers in a "fox-hole" moment prior to even studying with JWs.
I've seen Him do stuff for me since leaving WT.
Jehovah's been there for me through everything. It's just like is says in Isaiah...
"You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”
“I am the One who declared and saved and made known When there was no foreign god among you. So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God. Also, I am always the same One; And no one can snatch anything out of my hand. When I act, who can prevent it?"
Charles Taze Russell "called on the name of Jehovah" in the same blasphemous way as apostates did back in the days of Enoch. But the evil deeds of those apostates throughout history and to our day doesn't change the truth of who Jehovah is.
I love Jehovah's name because I love Jehovah.
The Watchtower is here today gone tomorrow, but Jehovah is forever.
I will love Him forever. My love for Him is not based on some temporary lying organization that falsely claims to represent Him.
Jehovah is the real deal. "He Causes To Become." I know Him. He answers when I call. He's Our Father, and He's not limited by whether or not someone pronounces His name slightly different if they're Chinese or Indian or Greek or Hebrew or English or whatever...
"He Can Make It Happen, Whatever He Wants To Happen."
Another way of saying it, "He's The Man."
Anyway, I've seen Him save me from impossible situations when no one else was there to help me. He's done it again and again and again. There is no denying Him. I know Him by name. He's going to fix everything. I know not everybody sees Him yet. But they will. It's just a matter of time. Everyone will, just like in Egypt.
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iloowy.goowy
I have no problem with the usage of Jehovah for God's personal name in English. Just like I have no problem with the name Jesus being pronounced like DJEE-zuhs and in Spanish it's HEY-soos. The pronunciations can vary with language, because it's the same name but pronounced by people with different sound habits in their own languages.
If I wanted to go around saying Yahweh or Yeshua, well maybe I should just talk Hebrew. But since I'm using English, then Jehovah is a well established pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton in English and that's fine by me.
This whole idea that we shouldn't use Jehovah because of some Spanish monk from centuries ago wrote in latin IEHOVA is getting overplayed. There's nothing wrong in what the Spanish monk might have been trying to do, just vocalize the tetragram in Latin. And since Latin isn't Hebrew then that's fine by me too. Besides he probably had a cousin whose name was Jesus and he pronounced it Hey-soos too, not Djee-zuhs so I see no problem there at all.
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Beth Sarim
In my earlier post it was the book ''Aid to Bible Understanding". Where on pages 884 & 885 it breaks down how the tetragramatron was latinized by Martinez in the 1300s.
Notably Raymond Franz was instrumental in this book too.
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FreeTheMasons
It only makes sense that there wasn't an English version of Jehovah's name until recent centuries, since there wasn't an English language until recent centuries. 🙂
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FreeTheMasons
@Smye said: My opinion is this: the name Jehovah is one of the hundreds of possible combinations for the Tetragrammaton. But even if it was the 'correct' one, Jesus opened up our view of God into what we now know as the Holy Trinity. Sticking to the Name so exclusively after Christ is basically heresy, as it implicitly (or explicitly in the case of JWs) denies the Trinitarian God by focusing solely on the Father. In any case, the Name was exclusively used (or not so much) by the Jews before Christ. It was never used by Christ or the apostles, despite what the JWs claim. Lastly, the obsession of JWs with using it in every second sentence, even if we leave aside the Trinity, is a gross violation of the Third Commandment.
You are slandering Jesus.
Jesus said "Let your name be sanctified." "I have made your name known and will make it known."
The Revelation to John was through Jesus and used the name of Jehovah throughout. Even though enemies of God sought to erase His name from the manuscripts those enemies were too stupid to erase it from the "Hallelujah" portions of that book.
Enemies of God are stupid. You can't fight against Jehovah and win. It's not possible. It's actually really ridiculous to watch, and that's why it says at Psalm 2 that Jehovah laughs at them.
Jesus' name means "Jehovah is Salvation." Jesus wants us to worship Jehovah.
I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of someone who is making false statements about Jesus or Jehovah. Not cool. Not wise.
Just sayin'.