I watch families crowding around a loved one in hospital whom I'm taking care of who die......sometimes they're old, but that doesn't diminish their pain, still the hurt is palpable. Sometimes they are young, this increases their pain and ours even more. A death occurs, we feel hopeless, they are distraught beyond belief..... What to say? This life is unfair and unkind, it strikes at good people, relentlesly and indiscrimanetly. This is a reason I could never believe in Evolution, a theory with no purpose or reason, Just one generation blundering on to the next, with no hope and an only "live for today" mentality. There has to be more, there has to be this New System that Jehovah has promised. Life can surely not be as cruel as this, to experience such joys and hope yet to feel such despair and hopelessness all in one short time here. Surely this life isn't just it, it just wouldn't be right.
Where are we all going.....What happens........?
by ScoobySnax 25 Replies latest jw friends
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ScoobySnax
.... I just feel so angry about it all at the moment. Sorry.
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Special K
I'm beginning to think that the movie "The lion King" helped me out a bit..
Even my kids tell me when I'm down about someone passing away ..
"Mom, it's the cycle of life and sometimes it just doesn't play fair."
It's interesting, when your young kids start saying things that you have been telling them when they are down.
I live each day thankful for the joy that I get from my family and friends.
sometimes there are no answers and I think one has to come to an acceptance of that.
A good cry is always helpful to release the pain of loss,.. and time helps too.
here is a hug just for you (((((scoobySnax)))))).
I have a book I read that inspired me when I was feeling the same as you some years back. I'll see if I can find it and post it here for you.
sincerely
Special K
P.S. The questions are always easy.. it's the answers that are hard.
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Phantom Stranger
I feel for where you are at, Scoob.
Another way to look at evolution, Scooby, is that there is an inexorable momentum towards growth, improvement, and progress - that things get better for each generation because of the struggles and advances of previous generations, and that a similar impetus may exist within us if we allow it. Ken Wilber writes about this idea a lot and integrates it into other concepts - A Brief History of Everything is a good intro to his recent work.
As far as this being all there is, here are some excerpts from an article I was reading today by a Buddhist monk named Thich Nhat Hanh. I hope there is some value for someone in it - I found it valuable where I am at the moment. http://www.shambhalasun.com/tnh.htm
If we look into...impermanence, we see that it doesn't just mean that everything changes. By looking into the nature of things, we can see that nothing remains the same for even two consecutive moments. Because nothing remains unchanged from moment to moment it therefore has no fixed identity or a permanent self. So in the teaching of impermanence we always see the lack of an unchanging self. We call this "no self".... It is because things are always transforming and have no self that freedom is possible...
We are often sad and suffer a lot when things change, but change and impermanence have a positive side. Thanks to impermanence, everything is possible. Life itself is possible. If a grain of corn is not impermanent, it can never be transformed into a stalk of corn. If the stalk were not impermanent, it could never provide us with the ear of corn we eat. If your daughter is not impermanent, she cannot grow up to become a woman. Then your grandchildren would never manifest. So instead of complaining about impermanence, we should say, "Warm welcome and long live impermanence." We should be happy. When we can see the miracle of impermanence our sadness and suffering will pass...
Each of us has a notion of how we can be happy. It would be very helpful if we took the time to reconsider our notions of happiness. We could make a list of what we think we need to be happy: "I can only be happy if..." Write down the things you want and the things you do not want. Where did these ideas come from? Is it reality? Or is it only your notion? If you are committed to a particular notion of happiness you do not have much chance to be happy.
Happiness arrives from many directions. If you have a notion that it comes only from one direction, you will miss all of these other opportunities, because you want happiness to come only from the direction you want. You say, "I would rather die than marry anyone but her. I would rather die than lose my job, my reputation. I cannot be happy if I don't get that degree or that promotion or that house." You have put many conditions on your happiness. And then, even if you do have all your conditions met, you still won't be happy. You will just keep creating new conditions for your happiness. You will still want the higher degree, the better job and the more beautiful house.
Please remember your notions of happiness may be very dangerous. The Buddha said happiness can only be possible in the here and now, so go back and examine deeply your notions and ideas of happiness. You may recognize that the conditions of happiness that are already there in your life are enough. Then happiness can be instantly yours.
Take care, Scoob.
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anglise
Hallo SS
I am sorry you are feeling so low at the moment.
Working in the environment that you do you are very aware that it will pass and you will move on, its the time inbetween that hurts.
For the very reasons you cited I cannot believe in a loving creator. I guess we all have our own emotional baggage thats brings us to such conclusions.
Maybe time and circumstances will change our views who knows.
The only thing we are sure about is today.
Thankyou for the work you do in (I assume) the NHS. The support of people who care really does help and make a differance.
Anglise
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greven
Well Scooby, I am sorry you are in such pain right now :o(
This life is unfair and unkind, it strikes at good people, relentlesly and indiscrimanetly. This is a reason I could never believe in Evolution, a theory with no purpose or reason, Just one generation blundering on to the next, with no hope and an only "live for today" mentality.
Look at the animals: they eat, live reproduce and die, often horribly. Is there a Greater Purpose for them too? Why would we be different? Just because we can reason about something after death?
Remember that Evolution Theory just tries explain how life evolved over a long perod of time. It doesn't answer any questions regarding the purpose or first cause of life. It doesn't rule out God or an afterlife simply because it is not designed to answer those type of questions.
No matter how you look at it we will never know for certain what the purpose of life is or if there is any in the first place! Maybe, just maybe we will find out when we die. Neither science nor religion can answer that with absolute certainty. What we are left with is the only certainty we have: reality. The reality of life can be a cold, cruel one at times, yet can be very fulfilling and joyful at other times. We just have to live with the uncertainty and make the best out of life, for ourselves as much as for others.
Greven
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Sassy
I don't know what I think any more. My ex father in law died a few days ago and I am still extremely close to one of the daughters. In the past I would have said something about being appreciative for the resurrection hope, or reminded her that she was in my prayers, but I didn't know what to say. I don't know what I believe and I am not praying at the moment. I feel a little lost and floating looking for answers. It feels good to have my eyes open about the WTS but it sure opens up a world of "I don't knows"...
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gaiagirl
It is always saddening to be separted from those we love. When we believe the separation will be longer, or permanent, we are saddened even more. There are many, many different ideas about what happens after the body dies. The Watchtower Society taught that our body was all that there was of us, and that when the body died and decayed, we only exist "in Jehovahs memory". However, this teaching, like most of the rest of their dogma, was not based on any observation of the natural world, but rather on their own interpretation of their own translation of the writings of men who lived centuries ago.
When we actually observe the natural world, we see that nothing goes to waste, ever. Matter breaks down, and is reconstructed into other forms of matter. The exact same atoms which make up your body today were forming part of the body of someone else last year, perhaps the cow which provided meat for a hamburger you ate, or the tree which used its own cellulose to form the apple you ate. The oxygen present in your body, both as a gas or as part of the structure of your tissues, was once part of someone else. The life force combines atoms into complex forms, which eventually break down, and those same atoms are recombined again into other forms. Over time, those forms tend to become more complex, so life forms today are more complex than those which were forming 4 billion years ago.
The Watchtower Society used to teach us that evolution was "dishonoring to God". Perhaps this is what they believed, but Charles Darwin didn't think so. He wrote "There is a grandeur in this view of life...having originally been breathed by the Creator into a few forms, or into one; and that whilst the planet has gone cycling on...from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
On the topic of the 'soul', I tend to agree with Solomon, who prayed that he would be granted wisdom. Solomon wrote "Men and beasts have the same ending. One dies exactly like the other, as they have the same spirit, so that there is no superiority of one over the other. All end up the same, all are made from the earth, and all return to the earth. Who can say that the spirit of people rises, or that the spirit of an animal descends?" Ecclesiastes 3:19-21. Solomon clearly distinguishes between the physical body and the "spirit" as two different things. If the material making up the physical body are constantly being recycled, what about the "spirit"? Is there any reason to believe this would be different, especially since Solomon states that human "spirit" and animal "spirit" is the same?
Personally, I view 'spirit' or 'soul' as something like a conscious fluid. It exists in a vast ocean which fills the
Universe. Within the ocean, there is no 'you' and 'me' there is only 'us'. Within the ocean,
all knowledge and memories are shared. Everything incarnate as a physical being has a portion
of this conscious fluid inside it. However, when this fluid is 'in' an incarnated body, it is
separted from the remainder of the ocean, just as you may go to the shore of a lake or sea,
and fill a vessel with water. While contained in the vessel, the fluid is not in complete
communication with the 'ocean' from which it came. It may still be aware of the ocean,
and even have imperfect communication with the ocean, but as long as the vessel contains it,
it is not 'at one' with the ocean. At the point of physical death, the fluid is 'poured out'
of the vessel, and eventually flows back to the ocean, and becomes at one with it.
If another vessel is dipped into the ocean, the chances of filling it with exactly the same
droplets that made up your soul are vanishingly small. However, each droplet that was 'you'
in a previous incarnation still carries your full set of memories.
Think of a starfish. If it is cut into pieces, each piece remembers what the rest of the
creature was like, and will grow into a complete starfish. Also think of a hologram which
contains an image. If you cut a hologram in half, each piece will still contain the full image.
Each droplet of soul is like a hologram of your entire set of memories. So the next incarnation
may have a little bit of yourself, as well as many others. As I write this, some of the fluid
forming 'my' soul has been in other vessels, which is why I may, at times, have memories of past lives, and why someone else might conceivably also have a memory of living as the same person for instance, it is possible that I could have some of the soul which was in the vessel we call Marco Polo, but someone else could also have some of Mr. Polo as well, and many people probably do.
If I have even one drop of his 'soul', then I can possibly recall him as a past life, due to the
holographic properties of the fluid. The ocean is very large, and some of the fluid which I
contain may be experiencing it's first incarnation in my vessel this time around. Some believe
that the soul ocean chooses to experience a physical incarnation as a learning experience.
Perhaps we have 20% previously incarnated soul, and 80% soul which has never been incarnated.
Perhaps the ratio is different in different people. People, animals, protista, plants, fungi,
bacteria, even virus, ANYTHING alive contains a portion of this fluid, the amount depending on
the size and complexity of their nervous system. The ocean is constantly being borrowed from,
and fluid previously having been borrowed is constantly flowing back to rejoin and become one
with the ocean.
This is part of the significance of the tarot card 'The Star' in which water is poured back to
join the 'ocean' of Universal Consciousness". By becoming 'at one' even in a limited sense with
that ocean, spiritual illumination can be gained.
Earth is said to be 4.6 billion years old, and to have had simple but
recognizable life forms for 3.6 billion of those years. Humans have only been around for 2
million years or so, depending on how closely you define humans
(some fundamentalists would say only 6000 years). So, into what bodies did 'soul' incarnate before
there were humans? Are we to think that obviously intelligent creatures, with distinctive
personalities such as gorillas, chimps, dogs, whales, porpoises, elephants, cats, etc, have no
souls? I believe that soul incarnates into whatever is available, and will continue to do so for
a long time. We are not the final word in the development of physical 'vessels' to contain soul,
only one of the most recent.
Bright Blessingsgaiagirl
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talley
Dear, dear Scooby, I am so sorry that Kate is no longer with your family. Perhaps it will help to know that your grief and frustration are shared by many, many others. Here is a web site that may help in your comfort and healing.
Rainbow Bridge Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.
All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.
You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.
Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....
Author unknown... Return to the Pet Loss Grief Support Website With love and sympathy, talley -
gumby
Hey scoob,
I understand your feelings, as this same thing bothers me to no end. I also do not believe in evolution.
The dilema for all of us is........who put us here and WHY? Why did a maker do such wonderful awesome things when he made this planet, and all the amazing things he put here such as you and me? Why does this same creator do all of this and then not tell us he did it?
Why doesn't he communicate with us, talk to us, tell us his plans, and our purpose. He's like a dad that builds a playhouse for his little girl before she's born. The little girl plays in the house and is told ..."your daddy built this for you, but he's not here and you can't see him...........but he's alive and he loves you very much".
The little girl wants so bad to see her daddy and have his direction........but he NEVER comes home again.
This is how I feel ......and I don't like it either! I wish I could offer you some direction on this scoob......but I can't. Yes.......it would be nice if the bible was correct in how we arrived here and where we go..........but would you be any less confused? There are so many different ideas even of bible believers as to many of our questions.
What conclusion can this lead a person to? God IS alive , the bible MUST be true, and god MUST have a people who will teach others his thoughts. Gee.....the witnesses seem to match this description.
The next thing you know scoob.......you have a religion to make you feel better and answer your questions. In reality.....we find there is no group that knows all the answers.......they only guess at them , and see what they desire to see.
Reality is hard to swallow sometimes.
Gumby
Rainbow Bridge 