Where are we all going.....What happens........?

by ScoobySnax 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jgnat

  I helped a friend watch her father die. He had been a lifelong alcoholic. He was hurried along to an early grave by a hit-and-run driver. The entire family gathered at his bedside to grieve and say their goodbyes. Some screamed angry tears, misabused the hospital staff, police, and the cowardly driver who sped away from a horrible mistake.

  His mother though, dear soul, was an island of peace. She stroked his hand and told stories from his happy youth. She was bathed in fond memories and love.

  From what I have seen, Christians watch a loved-one's leaving with greater peace. JW's try and have peace by firmly believing in the (conditional) resurrection hope. Many other Christians do it by trusting in the eternity God has built in to their souls.

  I am sure you have seen more grieving where you work than I have, Scooby. Have you seen this phenomenon, too?
• 

  Sentinel

  Since my upbringing was basically "christian" before the JW thing, afterwards it was "limbo"....sort of like you are feeling. It made me so unhappy and unsettled for so long that I tried to keep pushing these feelings aside for so many years. About three years ago, I finally just laid my life out on the table and dissected it. It was painful and eye-opening to see that many of my perceptions from childhood were not correct, and others were finally there for me to see and understand. A year later, I had an epiphany--where everything changes and yet nothing changes at all. Since then, life has taken on a clearer view and I have been more able to remove "dogma" from the picture, and what remained were some good clues from all of the history of mankind all over the world. Even the books of the bible contains some very good stuff. How close are we to when we, as human beings will have all finally come to that place where our souls journey "here" is done? I suspect that we are growing ever closer than we can even imagine. Who can know what other experiences outside of being "human" await us.
  

  For me, finally freeing myself from rigid religious dogma was excillerting--but then I thought, "if there is nothing, then how are humans supposed to exist?". My perceptions began to change and I became more open-minded. I have done so much personal research into the main religions of the world, and the other Eastern beliefs. Now I am leaning more towards the belief that we are just "hosts" to the soul. The soul that began in the divine and has moved through eons of time, experiencing all levels of existance. All of the universe exists and our soul has been a part of it at one time or another is part of that journey. In this way, animals too, are on the journey of the soul, and this is why some animals seem drawn to humans moreso than others.

  There is much to hope for, but it is really our soul that we protect by living honestly with ourselves and looking for the good and showing love and compassion. Death is just another door. For humans, we can only "feel" loss, because when the soul leaves the body, the body is gone. Our loved ones are missed so much, and much of grief is because we can find no comfort, no sure foothold of faith. I do believe our universal creator(s) allowed life to progress and form into what we are today--in their image. We can think and reason, and in this age of technology, so many doors have been opened up. Man is more able to connect with his soul, and be a part of the grand plan. We cannot comprehend these things in full because we are not meant to at this stage; but it gives me great comfort to believe that all "this" is not some hap-hazzard playground of the gods.
• 

  Big Tex

  Hey Scoob.

  All I can tell you is what I believe, and the only thing I know for sure is that this life is about choices. One can choose to believe in creation, God, etc. or one can choose to believe in science, evolution and all that that implies. Or one can mix and match. At the end of the day, we choose.

  Now then, one belief I choose is that God has enough respect for us as sentient, reasoning beings, that he gives us that latitude - our life is the sum total of our choices. Like you Scott, I just can't believe in a cold empty universe. I just have to believe that there is a kind and gentle person who started it all.

  What happens when we die? Don't know. No one really does, we guess and debate but we all will one day find the answer to that question. The only problem is, we won't be able to tell anyone living. I'll tell you something that sounds kind of silly (it reminds me of some of those old JW stories), but when Nina's father killed himself back in February I was off for a couple of weeks. When I got back to work, the first night or so there was an odor in the office exactly like his apartment, even his cologne. It stayed with me most of the night, I even smelled it on other floors of the building. It's weird really because I've got the worst sense of smell on the planet.

  What does it mean? I don't know really. There were no voices, no feelings or anything like in the movies, just an odor. Nina said she felt something the next evening. Now then, I choose to believe that wherever Bill was, or whatever his disposition was, it was his way of saying goodbye. When I talk to my God about Bill, I get a very clear answer that it's none of my business. Not in a mean or rude way, but a gentle firmness as if that is between he and Bill. So from that what I get is that what happens at death is personal and private, between ourselves and our Higher Power. In the meantime, we live this life to the best of our ability and try to be the person we are supposed to be.

  Reading through this, I realize how silly this probably sounds, but it is what I believe. And my point in saying this to you Scott, is that at the end of the day, you need to decide what you believe and not rely on someone else's idea. Faith, at its core, means you decide for yourself what to believe, and then you let the doubts and fears go, whether that is faith in God or faith in science.

  This life is about choices and decisions. If it helps, I see in you that you'll get there, you have a strength of spirit that you don't see yet. And when you have made your choices you will look back on this period in your life and wonder why it was so hard to decide; your answers were there the whole time, you just weren't ready to see them. Until that day, relax, don't force things and be a friend to yourself.

  Chris
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Dear, DearScooby,

  I haven't read all of these replies yet because I don't have time today. I hope I am not repeating what someone else has said so far. I think this might help you though so please read.

  Scoob, I am trying to figure it all out, too. I don't want to think this is all there is either. That would make life nearly unbearable.

  Something that tells me that this life can't be all there is the extraordinary love human beings have for each other. I look at little babies and how they are designed and how much we love them right away and I know, this can't be all there is.

  I look at the talent of Mozart, Beethoven, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, V. Van Gogh and I know that it would an insane and grossly unfair waste for their life and talents to end.

  I look at the beauty in this world and I think: the pain and ugliness probably does point us to the need for a loving and wise creator. I believe him far more equitable and loving than almost all churches and JWs teach of him, though. I don't believe he looks at us as slithering, vile little sinners deserving of death the second we are conceived. I believe whoever that is loves all of us and mostly wants to save us.

  I'd like to think our situation is much like that of Pepperland in the Beatles cartoon movie: Yellow Submarine. Pepperland was happy and filled with joy and rainbows and music. The Blue Meanies came along and put a glass dome over Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and the music stopped. The Meanies began to touch everyone and everything and turn it blue. No one could break the glass but Ringo had a 'ole in his pocket and he put the hole on the dome and the band began to play and music began to escape through the hole and fill the air. Color spread over the world again. Joy and laughter began to spread, too.Good triumphed over evil.

  I know in my hearts of hearts that the love we have for each other cannot permanently end with our deaths. Otherwise the proverbial Blue Meanies win and Evil triumphs over Good.

  I personally believe the JWs may be right about the evil in the world existing to teach us we need our creator's loving guidence and endless wisdom.

  I believe that scripture where Jesus says only God is good is a mistranslated verse and that it was mistranslated with control in mind. I believe most people are mostly good. I believe our creator knows this all too well. That is why I don't believe he is giving up on us and throwing it all out.

  The next time you look at a little baby and the wonder and magic that they possess and the love everyone feels for them, ponder how this means there has to be more. The next time you hear Jimi Hendrix play that guitar or hear John Lennon's Imagine, think of the extraordinary talent and love that they possessed. Do you think they have become as rubbish, never to be seen or heard again?

  I don't know the answers, but looking at these things I have mentioned gives me more hope than the JW bloodthirsty, jealous and angry Jehovah ever did.

  Hope this helps you crack at least a 10% smile. Hope your dark clouds open and the sunbeams peak through.

  Big warm hugs for Scooby (I am told I give great hugs that leave one feeling better)

  Heather
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Scooby,

  After reading Big Tex's comment:

  your answers were there the whole time, you just weren't ready to see them

  I had an epiphany (been having those lately.)

  Maybe life is not unlike the movie the Wizard Of Oz.Most sane people will describe a utopia when asked what the ideal world would be like. Like John Lennon's hope: "I hope someday you'll join us and the world will live as one." I was one of the "us" long before I heard his song or became a JW.

  Maybe when we die our creator will say to us: You already know...you had the answers all along.
  
  God will say, you didn't have to leave Kansas to find your heart's desire.You had it all along.

  Heather
• 

  Gopher

  What a great thread. I see a lot of interesting, thoughtful and kind answers from people who are maligned as "hate-filled apostates".

  Big Tex pretty well summed it up for me. Believe what is logical for you, because we cannot be sure in this life what (if anything) comes next. Make this life count, because it's the only one we're sure to have. If something big or important happens to us after we perish, we surely will find out then.
• 

  Nosferatu

  Sorry to hear about your recent experience(s) Scoob. I've seen many people leave this life although I've never really been affected by any of it. My thought was always to "carry on".

  I know you've had a lot of questions about our very existance and non-existance and you'd like answers to them. The way I look at it, we'll have an opportunity to have our questions answered one day. Until then, keep them in your mind and keep on living.

  Don't know if any of that helped, but my thoughts are with you.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Scooby,

  Thinking on what you said:

  Life can surely not be as cruel as this, to experience such joys and hope yet to feel such despair and hopelessness all in one short time here.

  .... I just feel so angry about it all at the moment. Sorry.

  This is another reason I know death is NOT the end of it all. The unspeakable, unfathomable pain and sense of loss we feel at a loved one's death makes me realize that we wouldn't be able to feel such pain if we weren't meant to have more than this. Someone designed us with the capability to love each so much that when we lose someone we feel pain in every atom of our being. Surely we are worth more than this one short miserable life.

  And for those people who cling to the idea that this life is all there is. Death is only part of a cycle and our destiny is to become mere fertilizer: I have this thought:

  People who want to believe this is all there is are afraid of hope. They fear it will be taken from them so they don't allow themselves to hope. You can't lose what you don't have. If you have no hope nothing can take it from you.

  Heather
• 

  run dont walk

  I watch families crowding around a loved one in hospital whom I'm taking care of who die......sometimes they're old, but that doesn't diminish their pain, still the hurt is palpable. Sometimes they are young, this increases their pain and ours even more. A death occurs, we feel hopeless, they are distraught beyond belief..... What to say? This life is unfair and unkind, it strikes at good people, relentlesly and indiscrimanetly. This is a reason I could never believe in Evolution, a theory with no purpose or reason, Just one generation blundering on to the next, with no hope and an only "live for today" mentality. There has to be more, there has to be this New System that Jehovah has promised. Life can surely not be as cruel as this, to experience such joys and hope yet to feel such despair and hopelessness all in one short time here. Surely this life isn't just it, it just wouldn't be right

  maybe the question should be , "where are you going ?"

  There has to be more, there has to be this New System that Jehovah has promised.

  yes , the old famous it has to be true idea, this can't be it, this is what the Watchtower has thrived on.

  Why so much concern about death, hey life never is fair, that's the way it goes, we will find out God's plans the day after we die, maybe it is something we should look forward too.

  This is what bugs me too hell about the JW's, they are on thier death bed, all concerned about dying, did they just waste away all their time going to the Kingdom Hall, my mom is very ill now, very concerned about death, And I said (I know it was mean but),

  "Why, you going to be in a paradise, you should be happy you're leaving this terrrible world, unless of course you don't believe it."

  Surely this life isn't just it, it just wouldn't be right

  Just proves Jehovah is a loser, toying with us, making us worry, putting carrots in front of us, to gropple at, IF I could stand in front of him/her, the things I would say, give him/her a piece of my mind. Then throw me in hell, I don't care.
• 

  Phantom Stranger

  How are you doing, Scooby?