by Smiles 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I agree with jp 1692
But your premise is wrong. There is not only no evidence that the WTBTS ever “had the spirit,” there is no evidence said spirit exists, or ever existed, at all—at anytime or anyplace.
However for me it was October 31, 1973. The night Jimmy Olsen jumped off of Building #4 at factory at Bethel.
Ok, I won’t say it....
DD
In Keith Casarona's book (p290) it say that several years after James Olson's death, Leo Greenlees, the pedophile and GB member left Bethel with their blessing and there money too.
So 1975 Greenlees leaves.
Then by 1980 they are pushing Ray Franz out. But he goes without their blessing.
I don’t buy into the “Creator must be created and so, on, and so on...”
I’ve heard Scientists say that they have a theory of how the Universe was created, and.... I’m not joking....it was created by colliding Universes.. So, exactly where did those other two Universes come from? What collided to make them, and so, on and so on???
So Scientists and Atheists have their own nonsensical rabbit-hole reasonings as well. Not a terrible thing, just humans talking about stuff and junk to pass the time.
DD 🤔
The implementation of the One Towel Rule at assemblies.
@Sea Breeze,
If a person tries to assume that the universe is self existing and uncreated, that is illogical because we observe cause and effect in it as well as an expanding universe which indicates a beginning by simply rolling the clock back.
Is it more illogical to say that the universe is self existing and uncreated, than to claim some Creator is self existing and uncreated?
Why?
Do cause and effect exist outside our universe?
How do we know?
A First Cause existing outside (and inside) of our time dilation is a more consistent view than other competing views.
Can you please define what exactly you mean by 'First Cause'?
Is it a natural process? A person? What properties and attributes does this First Cause have?
First of all, I think atheists/materialists believe in immaterial things all the time. In your efforts to explain your attraction to materialism you used a number of immaterial things.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say I don't believe in anything immaterial per se. I said "I don't see any reason to believe in anything for which no evidence seems to exists, or which effects on our physical world can not be measured or confirmed in any way."
All the phenomenon you mention as examples can be measured or have a detectable effect on our physical world.
And I have to disagree with your claim that none of these things are physical:
- Consciousness is not physical
How do we know this?
Is there any evidence that any consciousness can exist without at least a physical foundation?
What happens with a person's consciousness when their brain matter is disturbed? Does rearranging the physical brain matter influence their consciousness? Why (not)?
Could it be that (human) consciousness is not an a-physical / transcendent phenomenon, but an emergent property of brains?
Information is not physical.
How do we know?
Is there any evidence any type of information can exist without being stored in any type of physical carrier?
Logic, Reason, Ideas, Concepts, Morality, Codes, Truth and untruth are not physical.
These are all variations on the same theme.
Would any of these exist if (human) minds/consciousness would not exist?
Thus, do all these phenomenon lean as much on the existence of (brain) matter as consciousness itself might?
Time is not physical
Does time exist outside our physical universe? (And how do you know?)
What's your view of the concept of space-time in physics, as follows from Einstein's theories of relativity?
Furthermore, if as I assert that a Transcendent First Cause (Uncaused Spirit) is a better explanation than assuming a self existing, uncaused universe
Why would an Uncaused Spirit be a better explanation for our existence than an Uncaused Universe / Uncaused Singularity?
And more importantly, we can all assert anything we want. But how do we know which assertion is (in)correct?
Does it matter whether or not an assertion is true?
By what means can an assertion be verified or rejected?
I like this kind of approach as well.
This is not a debate as to whether JWs ever had God's Spirit. This is to get a (doubtful) JW to start thinking.
I like to ask if all the "weird" chances might be because and "apostate" has infiltrated the higher echelons of the JW Org. Would Jah allow that? He did in the 1980's, didn't he? Remember Ray Franz? (NOT that Ray was an apostate. Just that that is what WTS claims.)
Lots of JWs are skeptical about all the "New Light". You know what happens once a person begins to question thing...... One domino......two dominoes............BAM
Pyramidology led to a unsustainable generation teaching. Time ran out with no fulfillment. so choose either of those dates.
The hostile takeover by Rutherford plays into it too.
THEY NEVER HAD IT
Smiles it's a a false narrative. The Society sold a productive product and if you didn't believe it...... you were cast out.
Your questions make no sense to the 90 % of people who have turned their backs on this stupid and ignorant JW's religion who once believed the lies.
This is Jonestown on a low boil with the capacity to become a death cult
