Are You Emotionally dependent?

by one_ugly_time 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  one_ugly_time

  I have been lurking for some time, and have learned an awful lot (most of it awful) about how I was raised... This is a wonderful website...

  I just found Newbies! Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask by jgnat... this is a great thread, which leads to a wealth of information. Somewhere along the way I saw OH NO! , by SYN... and something really struck a chord tonight, so I thought I would post a question.

  These thoughts that SYN posted are so engrained in me, I can't stand it... Not that I think them consciously, but I get tense and nervous and, well, I feel this way when certain situations arise. Some of them have dimished with age, maybe because of maturity or maybe because I walked away at 18 at it dwindled, but godd*mn, I'm supposed to be a grown man... Why the h*ll does stuff like this keep coming up.

  So later, SaintSatan responded -

  *guffaw*

  Are you able to control your emotions or do you become emotionally dependent on other people?

  Jw's are supposed to let the wt control their emotions. They are not to decide for themselves how they feel about the opposite/same sex. Controling lust is a job for the GB.

  They are brainwashed to be totally emotionally dependent on the people (gb) in brooklyn and patterson.

  SS

  Is this the root cause? That sounds like me alright. Emotionally Dependent. Am I unable to decipher or control my own emotions, so I dump them on the closest victim. I understand that the dynamics of having been raised JW are really complicated, add an alcholic father and an emotionally absent mother, and things are really messed up, but does anyone else find this happening in their relationships?

  This one statement really hits home. Nobody responded to SS, and I don't recall reading any threads discussing this. If anyone knows any, can you let me know.

  I am working really hard to understand why I always feel like I destroy relationships that try to go beyond the friend acquaintence stage. Depending on a number of circumstances, even the attempt to get close will destroy the friendship. I guess I don't really know if it is possible to remain friends and become intimate. And I guess I don't know what mature emotional support, understanding, and sharing would sound or feel like -- especially when in an intimate relationship. I am starting to ramble, and realize that know this leads me to talking about boundaries. I don't think I understand boundaries either. Is that what I am missing?

  I never researched or talked about my past (except this previous year or so) and seem to have a lot a missing years in my childhood, so I know there is a lot of suppression going on. This site has helped alot, although at times it is overwhelming to reflect on some of these issues and I get so confused cause I don't know how to "fix" anything.

  I'm currently experiencing **one_ugly_time **...
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  jgnat

  Nice to meetcha, One_Ugly_Time. Love your avatar. And of course I am doubly flattered that you liked my thread. Tha thread was a labor of love, by the way. I am glad it is still making the rounds.

  Never a JW here. But I used celibacy as an excuse to avoid intimacy for over 20 years. I had an abusive husband to get over. Does that count? Looking back, I realize I mistrusted my own feelings, after blowing it so thoroughly the first time. I thought if I did everything right the second time around, I would never be hurt again.

  It was a big leap for me to follow my heart, risk failure, and be my natural stupidly romantic self. But hey, the last few years have been a blast. A roller coaster, but a blast. I have laughed (and cried) more than I ever have in my whole life.

  You might enjoy having a neutral third party help you sort out your feelings. Also, I suggest you give yourself time and space to sort things out. You don't have to be a completely emotionally mature person overnight. I do think you can learn to be intimate, just like a kid learns to ride a bicycle. If you take it slow, allow for some scrapes along the way, you can learn to wobble through life like the rest of us.
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  Country Girl

  OUT (one ugly time):

  Great nomiker.. or is it moniker?

  A great many of us experienced the same difficulties you describe. There are numerous reasons for this, and not all caused by the same things, but resulting in the same symptoms. The inability to retain/sustain relationships; somewhat inept socially (not sure if we are doing/saying the right things in social situations); emotional development stunted; abandonment issues; inability to trust; delusions about self; etc. This can be caused by religious extremism, but also other situations like parental alcoholism, sexual, physical and emotional abuse, drug abuse, domestic violence, etc.

  A child needs an atmosphere of acceptance, love, consistency, stability, and "firm freedom" to develop into a well-rounded human being. If there is constant rigid rules and severe punishment, the child can develop feelings of shame, guilt, fear, and mistrust. If there is violence, the child becomes fearful of abandonment, and therefore does not learn to trust: his Mom/Dad might be taken away from him at any moment through death or anger!

  If a kid has a very strict religion on TOP of it, one that is isolationistic, authoritarian, and fear-inspiring (Armagheddon) you got one messed up kid! How can they become sociable in the "real world" when they are taught to fear and despise it, and not to have contact with it? How can they hope to fit in well, when they are taught they are superior to it? No one likes a haughty person. All these things make some people that have been in cults very socially inept because they haven't had the experience dealing with people outside of their own "realm".. or the real world! They are emotionally retarded, and have a lot of catching up to do.

  Sometimes it can be terribly overwhelming and result in feelings of confusion and terror.. alot of us know exactly how you feel! I would just take some time, get some professional assistance to help work out some of these confusing feelings, and read up on some of the sites that talk about Adult Children of Alcholics issues (ACOA). I think you will find some helpful information there, that will be very useful to you.

  Good luck in your navigation. Just know that it *does* get better, and it does get easier!!

  Country Girl
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  one_ugly_time

  jgnat --

  You might enjoy having a neutral third party help you sort out your feelings. Also, I suggest you give yourself time and space to sort things out. You don't have to be a completely emotionally mature person overnight. I do think you can learn to be intimate, just like a kid learns to ride a bicycle. If you take it slow, allow for some scrapes along the way, you can learn to wobble through life like the rest of us.

  I've so often heard what I am experiencing called a mid-life crisis, but based on those older than me that I have talked to, this just isn't quite the same.

  Sometimes I wish I had full body armor but at the same time, I really want an emotional connection in my life, which, of course requires vulnerability. I am going to try to heed your advice to slow down. I have been experiencing road burns instead of scrapes. I do have a counselor who accepts me. He is basically saying that I am in a re-parenting phase. It must be helping, because I am starting to open up but the wounds are more like deep cuts. Thanks.

  CountryGirl --

  Everything you said is so accurate. It has taken me a long time to realize this, and I still can't put it into words like you did. Especially the superior attitude, socially inept, and emotionally retarded. I have read the ACOA book and it definitely applies. I am looking into joining one of those 12 step programs. I'm not sure what I would say or do there, but I need to do something to get some momentum back. I trust that it does get better. Like I told jgnat, I'll try to slow down. I guess I keep looking for the blue pill. It doesn't work like that in real life. Thanks
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  morty

  welcome oneuglytime!

  It is always nice to see more newbies here.... I feel it means we are doing our job and getting the REAL TRUTH OUT...anyways, pull up a chair a stay awhile....You will find the people here full of informative insights on things....again welcome..( no time to go into details about your post,will reply later...on my way to work.)

  morty
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  Special K

  Welcome One ugly time...

  It's interesting how one's comments can lead us on an introspect of ourselves and the reasons we are the way we are. I'm not sure but it kind of sounds like that is what is going on.

  I feel like I can point some things at the J.W. organization for the way that I am..(being the cult that it is). but, my family of origin, my enviroment etc all played a role as well. (and sometimes families of orgin aren't too sweet and influence).

  The key is awareness and taking the steps to adjust or change the things that we can or want to.

  For some, therapy tends to be a key in doing this. Others, by reading and pondering over the whys and because's work.

  again welcome to the forum

  sincerely

  Special K
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  Nosferatu

  Hello one_ugly_time!

  This problem that you've described isn't a problem only with the JWs, it's a problem with men all over the world. It's not necessarily your childhood experience, but it may be part of it. Here's how I see it:

  Think about what the man expects of a woman. The man expects the woman to be cute, pretty, innocent, loves shopping, loves candy & flowers, has her time of the month, is in need of much romancing and gifts to keep her happy, needs to be highly respected, etc. I could keep going on.

  Now think about what the woman expects of the man. He needs to be tall, dark, handsome, understanding, sensitive, romantic, sweet, caring, bla bla bla.

  Now let me ask you a question, did you learn all this on your own, or did someone teach you all this? Is this only your only understanding of how men and women work, or would most people agree with the above?

  The answer: Society (not WTS) has taught us all of the above. You see it all in movies, TV shows, commercials, radio advertisements, your parents, your friends, books, basically everywhere. My next question, is it all true?

  Yes and no. There are many who believe the above and follow it, but it doesn't really work that way. There is a huge difference between "common knowledge" and reality when it comes to men and women interactions. Society teaches you to be sweet, romantic, and caring to the opposite sex, your upbringing will either amplify or decrease the strength that you project these "qualities" and will also affect the method you choose to show them. Any of these can be changed, and Maxim & Stuff magazines are a good example of this. Tons of men subscribe to these pieces of trash because 1) There are tips to help you with your lovelife, 2) there's other interesting crap in there. When something's not working, the man just figures he needs to expand his romantic ideas, but rarely considers that it's the overall method he's using.

  Make sense? Should I continue?? I could go on forever on this subject.
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  one_ugly_time

  Morty --

  I feel it means we are doing our job and getting the REAL TRUTH OUT...

  As far as the borg goes, I agree whole-heartedly that it is an emotionally destructive environment. That's what really started this thread, SS's statement that we are taught to be emotionally dependent on the borg. Beyond that, I'm of the class that believes that there are no universal truths. Truth is like the 5th dimension. Somehow it's relative to the individual (thus, is affected by relationships) and is definitely affected by time and space. Woa. Hit a sore spot saying that there is a REAL TRUTH. We'll have to discuss that one sometime, also. Thanks Morty, glad to be here.

  Special K --

  It's interesting how one's comments can lead us on an introspect of ourselves and the reasons we are the way we are. I'm not sure but it kind of sounds like that is what is going on.

  The comment SS made only put into words what I have been feeling but didn't know how to express it. I can sense when it occurs, but I have no idea how to handle it. I have felt it for many years, but have only recently gained the awareness of the interpersonal dynamic that occurs. I believe that much of it has to due with the strict adherence to rules, ie, perfectionism. As a result, I am currently on the other end of the spectrum, ie, I'm not doing much right, but I am learning alot.

  Nosferatu --

  OK, you've thought about this. What you say makes sense.

  Any of these can be changed, and Maxim & Stuff magazines are a good example of this. Tons of men subscribe to these pieces of trash because 1) There are tips to help you with your lovelife, 2) there's other interesting crap in there.

  I've never read these magazines. I take it you don't recommend them, however, you say they give good advice ???

  When something's not working, the man just figures he needs to expand his romantic ideas, but rarely considers that it's the overall method he's using.

  Agreed, men are taught by there fathers and society to "fix" everything. In the end, what you said is exactly my problem. I am considering my overall method -- of communication, of intimacy, of listening, of reflection, of dependency/independency/interdependency, and so on (after all, like you, I'm only a 9 and could retire on an island at anytime, but what fun would that be). The problem arises when I am trying to make changes to existing "character". It's almost like I loose my identity trying to negotiate the closeness/distance issues of a relationship, especially as they move closer.
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  xenawarrior

  One time:

  Your journey is a healthy one. You want to heal and you are doing the introspective work you need to. Kudos to you for that !!!

  Everyone develops a certain degree of defense mechanisms in life in relation to what they have experienced along the way. The religion you were involved in is abusive by nature both emotionally and mentally. It is very controlling and unforgiving and a person's psyche isn't set up to deal very well with all of that. Now add to that emotional, physical, mental and other forms of abuse from those who are supposed to love you and you are bound to develop some pretty deep seated defense mechanisms within you to protect you from the harm coming in your direction.

  If the people in our lives who are supposed to raise us and nurture us and protect us from harm are not able to do so perhaps because they weren't raised that way or they become dysfunctional due to alcohol or drug abuse or they have given their emotional stability over to a religion such as the JW's; it creates a lasting feeling of abandonment. Abandoned by the very people who were supposed to be there in such a big way. And for those who were in the position of having their protectors actually aid and abet those who would harm them it makes it even worse.

  People who are in that type of situation can grow to expect to be abandoned by others- it becomes an essential part of their belief system. Out of that, they develop the defense mechanisms necessary to keep the pain away from them and learn to adapt over the years to that which no one should ever have to. They may learn to expect very little from others in the way of emotional support and love and that abandonment is inevitable and they have a great deal of proof in their past to support that belief. One of the defense mechanisms they may learn is to push others away first and it's not even something they are doing consciously. When they start becoming close to someone it triggers those abandonment issues and they push the other person away. Whether the abandonment comes from their own defense mechanisms pushing someone else away or real abandonment by someone else, it's still proof to support the internal belief system which was built over time.

  It sounds like you have had a great deal of emotional turmoil, control and abuse to deal with in your life and you may have developed some protection measures for yourself that are now patterns of relating to others. The fact that you recognize a need to work on some issues is HUGE and you are definetly on the right track to resolving those for yourself. One thing, please remember : IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT ! Be gentle with yourself and give yourself some time to identify some of these things and take some baby steps along the way to healing. The things you are identifying took years to develop as habits and it may take a while and maybe some help from a therapist to see just how it all plays out in your life and your relating to others. Once you can identify the things which trigger you and what that may cause in your own feelings and behavior, you will start to see it more on a daily basis and you'll be more able to stop yourself mid-pattern and go in another direction .

  Good luck to you on your journey. You are on the right track!! One foot in front of the other....

  Hugs at ya !!

  XW
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  one_ugly_time

  xenawarrior - Do you know me from a past life? What did I write that warranted that insightful passage?

  People who are in that type of situation can grow to expect to be abandoned by others- it becomes an essential part of their belief system.

  OK. Everything up to this point explains WHY my expectations are as you described. I couldn't agree more, based upon the studying I have done. What I don't get is how to extract that crap out of me to allow me some freedom.

  Out of that, they develop the defense mechanisms necessary to keep the pain away from them and learn to adapt over the years to that which no one should ever have to.

  Yes, I recently journaled "I have a super sophisticated super ego, no real ego, and I won't be letting my id come out to play anytime soon". OK, a little too much Frued, but my point was, I was experiencing a wonderful friendship and some imaginary line got crossed and I completely lost control of all emotional and mental functioning. Believe me, it was really no big deal either. It was just an innocent question... I thought it was the end of the relationship if I didn't answer correctly, so... it was ugly.

  They may learn to expect very little from others in the way of emotional support and love and that abandonment is inevitable and they have a great deal of proof in their past to support that belief.

  I just knew, from that point forward, no matter what I said or did she would be out of my life pretty soon. If not, it was obviously out of pity. So, I vacillated day to day or week to week between smoothering (to see if I would get any support) or running (to prove I wouldn't). My defense mechanisms started shooting like cannons. I couldn't stop them and it obviously confused this individual to the point of leaving. Yes, xenawarrior, very painful.

  One of the defense mechanisms they may learn is to push others away first and it's not even something they are doing consciously. When they start becoming close to someone it triggers those abandonment issues and they push the other person away.

  Yes... exactly ! It's not till 3 days or maybe 3 months later that I realize what has happened. I will do some deep soul-searching on this issue. I have looked at it, but I don't think enough. Any reading material you could suggest in this area?

  Whether the abandonment comes from their own defense mechanisms pushing someone else away or real abandonment by someone else, it's still proof to support the internal belief system which was built over time.

  So, after continuously destroying relationships, I give up... I don't even respond to closeness, because, a) I know I will screw it up, and I would rather not. b) I will get defensive and chase them away. c) I will become emotionally dependent and smoother them for reassurances. So, I stick to plan d) just say no. It doesn't matter what the question is, just keep my distance. It usually ends up destroying the friendship anyway, since it becomes stagnant. But, for right now, I don't have to deal with the pain of it being my fault.

  Nice to meet you xenawarrior.