Awake #4/2016: Homosexuality (page 8)

cofty

those that encourage homosexuals to be 'non-practicing' should not be labelled homophobic.

I disagree

cofty

MASH like a lot of posters you only seem to cope well with two sorts of people.

1 - Those who agree with you 100% and join you in an unrestrained outrage-fest against a common enemy.

2 - Those who hold diametrically opposite views that you and yours can attack.

When you find somebody who falls in neither camp you fall into the lazy trap of creating a straw man who you can pretend falls into the second group.

Why not try engaging with things I actually said with regard for context?

MAS*H

@Cofty.

You only seem to be interested in semantics.

What a ridiculous thing to say! The whole discussion is about semantics, we are discussing the meaning of the label homophobic (and others). Please do enlighten me, how one would go about discussing this without being interested in semantics?

Your lengthy response added more heat than light.

My lengthy response demonstrated;

You attempted to excuse the WBTS from the label of homophobic
You do not understand the difference between an ism and spectrum, that isms can fit on a spectrum but an ism is not spectrum.
I lampooned your silly idea that the ism's we discussed are in fact spectra
I gave a good account of why your idea that JW's do not allow their homophobia to "affect how they relate to gay people" is BS
I demonstrated why the definition of homophobia you gave from the ADL does fit the WBTS.

You now have now further acted as a WTBS apologist from your last post.

"Their teachings lead to self-loathing."

The bible does that.

MAS*H

@Cofty. Well that's pretty funny. Your last post is a straw man argument from start to finish!

cofty

we are discussing the meaning of the label homophobic

Are we? I'm not. I'm discussing the WT stance on homosexuality, why they take that position and how it compares to other faith groups. I have no interest in semantics.

You attempted to excuse the WBTS from the label of homophobic

No I didn't. I said that some dictionary definitions of homophobia do encompass the Watchtower's position. I said it three times.

You do not understand the difference between an ism and spectrum, that isms can fit on a spectrum but an ism is not spectrum.

That is just gibberish. Just because you assert things doesn't make it so.

You now have now further acted as a WTBS apologist...

How can somebody who has utter contempt for a cult be an apologist?

What a silly insult to use. Do you want a conversation or are you happier with personal attacks and insults?

MAS*H

@Cofty.

I would humbly like to offer another reason for my posting to this topic. One perhaps you failed to add into your pathetic straw man post above.

I really dislike idiots that attempt to excuse homophobic religious organisations and I find their pathetic attempts to rationalise such homophobic actions as offensive.

In the main, I agree with you and your previous posts especially on evolution, science, etc... and probably on much of your world view. This only makes your post above look even more intellectually retarded, a clear bowing out with an ad hominem parting shot.

cofty

I really dislike idiots that attempt to excuse homophobic religious organisations and I find their pathetic attempts to rationalise such homophobic actions as offensive.

I have never offered an excuse for the cult other than to point out the obvious fact that the bible condemns homosexuality and their religion is predicated on the belief that the bible is god's word.

You have made multiple attempts to twist my words and misrepresent my views. This is intellectually dishonest, in fact it is getting to the stage of blatant lying.

makes your post above look even more intellectually retarded

So when I asked if you wanted a conversation, or were you happier with personal attacks and insults I take it you opted for the latter. Are you a teenager?

I never respond in kind to childish insults. Get back to me if/when you are ready for a mature conversation.

MAS*H

@Cofty.

Here are some examples of you NOT discussing semantics with me? I think there's one from each post you made directed to me. This is your way of not showing an interest in semantics.

If you label the Watchtower's position as hateful or homophobic how do you describe this...?
My point is that characterising the Watchtower as hateful and homophobic seems a bit heavy in comparison.
Actually 3 men who identify as gay ex-JWs have said in the last couple of days that it is a mistake to label the Watchtower's position on homosexuality as hateful.
All three are morally bad. All three are also subject to degrees of error.
Pointing out that one bad thing is not as bad as another bad thing is not the same as saying the first bad thing isn't bad.
Sexism, racism and homophobia are all on a spectrum and how you apply dictionary definitions in the real world is subjective.

Are both of them sexist? Well strictly speaking they are but the same word hardly seems adequate for both of them.
By that definition no the Watchtower are not homophobic. Other dictionaries define the word in ways that would encompass the position of the cult.

cofty

I always try to engage directly with a question. If somebody asks me about a label I will deal with the question.

You continued to ignore my answers and ask the same questions again.

If you stopped typing for a moment you would see that I am addressing the limitations of pedantic definitions and trying to lead you towards a more interesting conversation.

Your only interest seems to be in throwing around insults and playing to the gallery. Do you have something more thoughtful to ask apart from your crowd-pleasing displays of faux outrage?

rebelfighter

Cofty,

To answer your question, I was never a JW. If you want to know how I ended up on this forum you can read all about the married "Elder" I dated for 5 years in my intro.

I have never been in a KH, trust me that would be rather explosive. No one tells this Italian lady what she can and cannot do!

Awake #4/2016: Homosexuality

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