Reasons for concluding that Watchtower is in (serious) financial trouble

by slimboyfat 151 Replies latest members private

• 

  jwleaks

  slimboyfat - If JWs were in receipt of grants from governments this information would be public. Where is it?
  In the United Kingdom their accounts are public and there is no sign of income from grants or government schemes. (Maybe there are some very small instances, but so tiny to be insignificant to overall finances. However even this has not been shown.)

  Watchtower Britain takes advantage of the following government scheme: Gift Aid.

  https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/10/17/337101/tax-implications-charitable-donations

  Gift Aid in the UK media
  

  https://www.ft.com/content/b51dd27c-6233-11e7-91a7-502f7ee26895

  Some relevant background on Watchtower Britain and Gift Aid:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/80561/jwgift-org-new-watchtower-website-online-donations

  From Wikipedia

  "Gift Aid allows individuals who are subject to UK income tax to complete a simple, short declaration that they are a UK taxpayer. Any cash donations that the taxpayer makes to the charity after making a declaration are treated as being made after deduction of income tax at the basic rate (20% in 2011), and the charity can reclaim the basic rate income tax paid on the gift from HMRC. For a basic-rate taxpayer, this adds approximately 25% to the value of any gift made under Gift Aid. Higher-rate taxpayers can claim income tax relief, above and beyond the amount claimed directly by the charities. The rate of the relief for higher-rate taxpayers in 2011 is usually 20%, the difference between the basic rate (20%) and the higher rate (40%) of income tax, although recipients of dividend income (taxed at 10% and 32.5%) can achieve a higher rate of tax relief (22.5%)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_Aid

  Watchtower Britain financials

  http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?subid=0®id=1077961
• 

  sparky1

  Thanks to whoever gave me the thumbs down on my last post! I have come to the conclusion, after being involved in many of his discussions on the demise of Watchtower, that slimboyfat does not have even the most basic understanding of how a business operates, a balance sheet, P&L statements, cash flow, real estate income from a non leveraged piece of property, reinvestment of capital from a non producing asset to a producing asset and on and on and on. It seems that he is so married to his theories that he will turn a blind eye to anything that does not support his personal narrative.
  
• 

  _Morpheus

  I have come to the conclusion, after being involved in many of his discussions on the demise of Watchtower, that slimboyfat does not have even the most basic understanding of how a business operates, a balance sheet, P&L statements, cash flow, real estate income from a non leveraged piece of property, reinvestment of capital from a non producing asset to a producing asset and on and on and on. It seems that he is so married to his theories that he will turn a blind eye to anything that does not support his personal narrative.

  Yes!!!! Yes! That^^^! What you just said. Spot on truth.
  
  
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Thanks to whoever gave me the thumbs down on my last post!

  It wasn't me, Sparky!

  discussions on the demise of Watchtower

  We don't even know who and what "the Watchtower" is anymore. The arguments and discussion points that Slim uses are based on his observations of the CCJWs and what is happening to local congregations.

  But that is only one small part of the corporate beast that the WTS actually is. Just because the CCJW is crying and begging for donations doesn't mean that the Watchtower is in financial trouble.

  We have no idea what goes on in the secretive financial world of the WT elite - who really knows where the money goes or how it is distributed? Who really knows how much they take in on donations and where the big donations come from? How can anyone base their predictions on only what happens in the part of the world that they are familiar with? What about South America? Do we really know how the org operates down there? Or in some of the African countries? We don't know.

  Slim goes on and on about the reduction in printing. But what about that big printing operation the WTS/org has going on in South Africa? And doesn't Germany do lots of printing still? And don't they have contracts to put their literature into school systems somewhere - the Philippines?

  I haven't dug too deeply into their worldwide operations lately and things can change rapidly in certain locations. Like in Russia, for example.
  
  
  
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Also, not to overlook the huge potential for income when the WT decides for "safety" reasons to begin requiring registration and monetary "memberships" to the website to make sure the JW material is in the hands of JWs only ( forget about spreading the knowledge, that will be for a "front page" mini site with lots of carrots etc to join a bible study, etc ).

  I just smell it coming, the requirement to join the website with a bank draft or credit card draft, making sure the JWs believe it is to further the WWW and promote safety away from apostates.

  Tithing cloaked once again.

  Material will be more and more website exclusive, forcing the loyal, faithful, JWs to join.
  
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  I think one thing we can conclude is that the WT corporation is in financial trouble by the outward actions to date, and I think we can reasonably assume that change in procedures is eminent and in process to avoid financial ruin.

  Also fact: is that they have cashed in on considerable real estate in recent years, have downsized printing big time, canceled many building projects except for a couple of projects in England and the US creating tie ups in sellable real estate because abandoned projects(considerable lo$$e$). They have let go many slave laborers who they made take a vow of poverty, which means less over head for the WT corporation.

  But even after this I can see the WT corporation surviving by a heroic money shuffle and maintain a much smaller following due to the fact they did what they had to, to survive bottom line. I also see a more milder mind control cult as the legal system come down on these tyrants over their harsh practices and they have to pay out all these fines for their self serving bad teachings.

  So I see a highly weakened mind control cult in the future just puttering along and trying hard to live down the image of a cruel mind control cult by being more kinder.
  
• 

  Corney

  OrphanCrow

  When "The Society" made its move and set up the "Christian Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses", it was the beginning of the attempt to make the religion self-sufficient. For probably several rea$onS but the primary one would be of course, $$$. Since that time, the org has desperately (I never know which term to use...WT, WTS, org, GB, JWs...) had to find ways to exists independent of "The Society" (again...for various reasons). And, one of the things they have had to do to is to adhere to "religious" models of funding. Simply because the JWs are an 'independent' 'religion' now. All the foofoorah and such around donations and building, etc, are simply the contortions that the "new" jworg is going through while they get used to their new positioning within "The Society".

  The org has entered into mainstream religious taxation regulations without the help and support of "the Society" - they are just being told to buckle up and pull their fair share of the load within that nebulous and convoluted beast that is loosely known as "The Society". And, once the JW religion had its own entity, the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" was eligible for all sorts of granting and funding benefits - just like all the other churches and charities.
  

  Watchtower NY received federal tax-exempt status as a religious organization in 1992, almost a decade before the reorganization, and WT Pennsylvania did it in 1946. So, are there any indications that they were not "eligible for all sorts of granting and funding benefits" and it was necessary to create CCJW to obtain them?

  It should also be noted that WT NY is the only JW tax-exempt organization designated as "central" under IRS classification; its subordinates are Religious Order of JW, WT Florida, at least five congregations, and at least one Assembly Hall. WT Pa and CCJW are "independent" and have not subordinates (under IRS classification, again). Finally, WT NY was mentioned by NY Court of Appeals (the highest court of the state) as "the governing body of the religious group known as Jehovah's Witnesses" and "the ecclesiastical governing body of a recognized religious denomination with its own beliefs and form of organization" in its 1960 and 1974 judgments on tax matters.
  

  https://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/court-of-appeals/1960/8-n-y-2d-350-0.html
  

  https://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/court-of-appeals/1974/35-n-y-2d-92-0.html
  

  I think that the recent push for donations indicates that the org has changed how they fund their org simply because they have to in order to retain their tax free status as a non-profit organization.
  

  Sorry, what changes did you write about? The org has been funded mainly from donations for decades.
  
• 

  Drearyweather

  We have no idea what goes on in the secretive financial world of the WT elite

  That's the telling point here. We have all sorts of leaks, but not a single insider info on the financial dealings of the WT, apart from the available financial records on the public domain.
  
  
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Corney: Sorry, what changes did you write about? The org has been funded mainly from donations for decades

  The change occurred in 2000/1. What you have posted pre-dates the emergence of CCJW as a quasi separate entity. The "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" didn't exist in 1960 or in 1974.

  Yes, of course the WTS would have been able to apply for grants etc under the form it was in at those times. However, once CCJW split off into its own corporation, that entity established its independence
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Just been thinking a bit more about what I replied to you, Corney...

  When the CCJW became semi-independent in 2000/1, they no longer could show the revenue sources that the WTS has had coming in for those decades (and not all of it was donations). At that time, they had to establish their own revenue stream.

  What you have said is correct but you haven't brought it up to date with developments since that time