Reasons for concluding that Watchtower is in (serious) financial trouble

by slimboyfat 151 Replies latest members private

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    And let's not forget the big money grab of all the congregations that have a bank account in the US. They certainly wouldn't have been so bold as to ask for any cash on hand beyond 3 months of expenses and ordered it pledged to the WT.

    And don't forget the pledges asked/order by the WT corporation of its members in the recent past to get more funds.These things IMO spells serious trouble for WT corporation.

    Not to mention lawsuits all over the world that they are facing, along with bad publicity from these and a vast army of former members doing what they can to make it hard for the WT corporation because of their evil treatment of them.

    I really think they reached the point of no return some time during the mid nineties.

    Things will continue to escalate till WT's CEOs hide as much of the assets as they can for a golden parachute before they go belly up. Which I'm hoping a little justice metered out to PTL main man Jim Baker will happen to these frauds.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

    Fraud conviction and incarceration[edit]
    Following a 16-month Federal grand jury probe, Bakker was indicted in 1988 on eight counts of mail fraud, 15 counts of wire fraud and one count of conspiracy.[8][15] In 1989, after a five-week trial which began on August 28 in Charlotte, the jury found him guilty on all 24 counts, and Judge Robert Daniel Potter sentenced him to 45 years in federal prison and a $500,000 fine.[5]:52[16] He served time in the Federal Medical Center, Rochester, in Rochester, Minnesota, sharing a cell with activist Lyndon LaRouche and skydiver Roger Nelson.[17]
    In February 1991, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit upheld Bakker's conviction on the fraud and conspiracy charges, but voided Bakker's 45-year sentence, as well as the $500,000 fine, and ordered that a new sentencing hearing be held. The court held that Potter's statement at sentencing that Bakker's actions resulted in "those of us who do have a religion" being lampooned as "saps from money-grubbing preachers or priests" was evidence that he had injected his own religious beliefs into considering Bakker's sentence.[18]
    On November 16, 1992, a sentence reduction hearing was held. Bakker's sentence was reduced to eight years.[5]:104 In August 1993, Bakker was transferred to a minimum security federal prison in Jesup, Georgia, and then he was granted parole in July 1994, after serving almost five years of his sentence.[5]:116, 130 Bakker's son, Jay, spearheaded a letter-writing campaign to the parole board on his father's behalf, urging leniency.[5]:106–115 He was released from Federal Bureau of Prisons custody on December 1, 1994.[19]
    On July 23, 1996, a North Carolina jury threw out a class action suit brought on behalf of more than 160,000 one-time supporters who contributed as much as $7,000 each to Bakker's coffers in the 1980s.
    The Charlotte Observer reported that the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) still holds Bakker and Roe Messner, Tammy Faye's husband from 1993 until her death in 2007, liable for personal income taxes owed from the 1980s when they were building the PTL empire, taxes assessed after the IRS revoked the PTL ministry's nonprofit status. Tammy Faye Messner's new husband said that the original tax amount was about $500,000, with penalties and interest accounting for the rest. Notices stating the IRS liens list still identify "James O. and Tamara F. Bakker" as owing $6,000,000, liens on which Jim Bakker still pays.
  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    When I was a JW I used to give a contribution once in a great while usually $50 a pop. Probably 200 -300 a year but I think if you average it out over my entire stint with the Jdubs probably around $75 average every year.

    If each of the 8 million JW's gave only $1 per month , in a year the Society would receive $96 million per year.

    Where is the money going and why would it cost so much to drink life's water free?

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    BULLSHIT !!! The Watchtower Corporation has never been richer.

    Mostly due its many recent branch sales around the world.

    2 billion US $ just for its sales in Brooklyn New York

  • TD
    TD
    JWs on the other hand, to put it bluntly are cheapskates.

    No doubt. To be fair though JW's get next to nothing in return for their donations, so there's not much of an incentive to ever stop being cheapskates. (Which, IMO actually makes your case stronger.)

    Catholics have their problems, but a parish is more than just a cheap stucco building built with volunteer labor run by part time janitors, window washers and their gossipy wives.

    Mormons are closer to JW's than are Catholics, but they at least have a robust social network to care for them when they're sick or out of work. (Provided they are in good standing of course.)

  • LV101
    LV101

    With reference to Fink's words above in the mid 1990s to 1997 the hall PO told me the society was short of money - they were hounding for money back then and we know they had plenty coming in before people started walking away from the cult. I heard the same lies from an elder or 2 at the first hall I ever attended. Apparently, they poor mouth all the time for everyone's money, jewelry, estates, on and on. Don't send your children to college -- we want your money and disinherit your children if they don't suit up and follow us -- we want your money. It's their business modus operandi. They lie all the time at the assemblies (whatever they're called today) about the shortages, they fleece the JWs for parking fees - maybe not on their own assembly hall properties but it wouldn't surprise me.

    Remember the ole saying - the rich act like they're poor (always poor mouthing) and the poor act like they're rich. Just sayin - I hope this isn't the case but they are pathological liars.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    Another great article by SBF. As SBF has shown, SL published in 2015 that wt is in financial trouble. Nothing has financially improved since the broadcast.

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    Don't forget they're busy building a "solid digital foundation".

    I presume this digital "foundation" means they're planning on building upon it.

    "Solid digital foundations" aka the website and broadcasting studios with all the bells and whistles tend to cost $$$.

    Not exactly evidence of brokeness, but hey, maybe they actually are going through financial death throes cleverly disguised as near bankruptcy, and the rest is there to distract from the dire staits they're in.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    The property sales numbers are part of public record. Their 'biggest' asset in the middle of NYC got them a mere $340M and other properties have been going for far less at $200M and lower, it's definitely not worth 'billions', at best a single billion.

    From those millions they've had to pay for Warwick and Walkill. At 1.6M sq ft it has cost them a pretty penny (for that area, a low-ball figure would be ~$100/sq ft) and then there is that remediation cost and probably incoming fines from the DEC for that time the Watchtower dumped printing chemicals at their farms and when it became known, they tried to spread it out and aerated the ground to minimize the levels recorded until someone finally blew the whistle, so then they had to clean up the whole old and new areas. Then it came out that the new site also used to be a toxic dumping site which required remediation (very cheap land, it sure was) and while they bungled their case attempting to sue over it to the wrong (nonexistent) company, this may in the future also become a litigation case since they outright built over the waste that causes leukemia and other health

    They've also had to settle some serious cases which we also know from public record the banks initially had put that money in CA in escrow pending the case, but since they lost, they presumably have to now pay it back - with interest - besides the management and escrow fees.

    So yeah, the move to Warwick/Walkill over the last few decades has been a major loss to them in the long run and making those decisions during a real estate bubble, it didn't get them the profits they thought they were going to get. It's brought them some much needed press but didn't boost their image, reputation and income as much as they wanted.

  • LV101
    LV101

    SBF - Thanks for starting this topic and your great outline/posts. Valid points you make about WT's expenses. I was under the impression all literature was paid for by the dubs when picked up at the hall even after the tax ruling. I realize many JWs were giving insignificant amts. or what they could afford but others made up for it at the hall I was at. This must have been a problem at most halls for WT to lose money on literature.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman
    Not exactly evidence of brokeness,

    WT never claimed they are broke or going broke, they claimed that they are spending more than their income and that is a serious financial problem.

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