So are SDA numbers up overall? If so, to what should that be attributed? Enrollment stats at their universities might be telling, as might the number of their congs.
Interesting that the other cult-cousins are going thru nearly identical hemmoraging of members.....
by WingCommander 51 Replies latest jw friends
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BluesBrother
JWs reported an average 8.6 million publishers in 2023 which was a small increase on the year before… That is hardly a haemorrhaging of members , despite what we would like to happen
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Biahi
Blues Brother, I don’t think those numbers are valid. Liars figure, and figures lie. 🤷♀️
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WingCommander
About SDA's and JW's having a "slight increase in attendance" during the COVID pandemic:
Well, "Duhhhhhh!" They are BOTH end-times apocalyptic cults! Any increase during any sort of world-wide plight is 1000% predictable. Previous example: 9/11. We know many who leave are sometimes POMI, so when something scary happens, their minds revert back to their cult programming. Get back to Mother's safe teet! Grab on for a while! Then, after everything cools off and settles down, they all leave again, along with other existing members who are fed up with the "Cry Wolf" mentality and not seeing "The End" come again. They finally see the cult is full of shit, and leave.
Someone above mentioned the great exodus of people from religions in Europe in the decade after WWII.
Again I say, "Duhhhhhh!" WW2, the greatest global conflict the world has ever seen, with atrocities that still haven't been matched in modern day. You had highly religious people (no matter what their faith: Jews, Catholics, etc) all at war, all praying to make it thru. In particular the suffering ones in the Death Camps.....and what did they receive in response to their prayers? Crickets chirping. Gas chambers and ovens. Entire communities, towns, cities (think Western USSR) wiped off the face of planet. Oh sure, the Allied troops eventually rolled in to liberate the Camps, but 99% of everyone was already DEAD, stacked like cord-wood.
The remaining? Scarred for life, and many pissed at God and re-examining if they believe he even exists. So many gave up on the concept on a Higher Power, because they saw when the going got tough, REALLY tough, they were on their own. So they went on with life, got married, had kids and grandkids. You think they pushed them into the churches? Hell noooooooo! So golly gee, big mystery as to how atheism exploded in Europe after WW2. And this isn't even touching the subject of all the past church history and sexual abuse.
So please, stop with all the bullshit about SDA's and JW's experiencing an "increase." Every single photo from every Convention this summer PROVES the JW's are losing membership. So are the recent changes. What? You think the GB is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts? LOL!!!! They've been forced to do this, or else risk losing even more members. If stats were good.....increasing even, you think they'd loosen their grips? LOL!
If you want to see what JW's and SDA's will look like in the future, go find a Christadelphian Congregation and sit in on a meeting and look around at the remaining grey hairs. That is, IF you can find a Congregation to attend. SDA's? They'll be around a little longer, as they've adapted quicker and also have better member services. Mormons are KING for member services, but even that isn't stopping the hemorrhaging over there. What will keep them going the longest is their land holding assets and huge savings and investment portfolio.
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dropoffyourkeylee
Anecdotally, I see a decline of JW membership and activity (I am in the US). The WT membership/publisher figures for the US are relatively flat in recent years, generally holding steady. But that doesn't jive with my own personal observations. Several congregations within my sphere of observations have closed, the KH sold, and the JWs merged with other congregations, with no apparent increase in attendance at those congregations. And the conventions are emptier-looking than I have ever seen. They try to spin it as having fewer congregations assigned to that particular convention, but I don't buy it. The WT is driven primarily by the dollar; they wouldn't pay to rent a large facility like that unless they expected to have it filled-to-the-brim with donating JWs.
That being said, other countries are reporting increases, some quite large. I spoke with a JW bethel member in an African country, and yes, they do have conventions with 700 baptised and have people on a waiting list to get bible studies. But the whole country's per capita income is something like $100 a year.
My take is that in the developed countries, the JW religion is in a death spiral. In third world countries they will have continued growth for a while, probably some decades.
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ThomasMore
dropoffyourkeylee - I think your points are all valid.
However, if WTC is banking on growth in Africa to save them, they are truly desperate. African publishers do not donate enough to offset the costs and risks of doing business there. Currently, WTC is not sending investment funds there as one might expect, given the interest being shown by the people.
Political tides turn quickly in most African nations. US based religions are seen by the governments as a drain on the nation, and are viewed with growing suspicion. Historically, moving money out of those countries back to the US has been problematic, placing the JW Branch personnel in those lands at risk of imprisonment and/or persecution.
African interest in the promise of paradise is to be expected. However, the cultures in those lands are not aligned with JWism at all. CSA, domestic violence, fraud and other practices are deeply rooted. Immigrants from African lands bring all those problems to the US where they manifest themselves in judicial hearings. I don't see any help for WTC coming as a result of interest on that continent - and I think WTC has serious doubts that growth there will ever be profitable.
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Beth Sarim
"The internet is the Borgs electric chair".
It has been said
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Simon
People were let off the treadmill of going to meetings for a while, and realized that it was just a habit and not something they really enjoyed.
It's only when you stop that you realize just how much of your time it consumes.
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Beth Sarim
Time.
Which you can never regain.
Money,,its possible you can.
Time,,,you cant.
The time spent on things getting ready for meetings also. Dressing up. Driving to & fro.
Time. When its gone,,,its gone.
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Riley
I have a friend who was a pretty devoted evangelical. During the pandemic , his church would not comply with any of the rules. It was all conspiracy this and tyrannical government that and the vaccines are the mark of the beast etc etc. The health authorities just kind of left them alone. Any kind of police action would have just resulted in more members next week.
Then people started to get really sick. Some even ending up in hospital. Without oxygen and steroid puffers , it would have likely resulted in pneumonia and lung scarring. Maybe even dying.
His thought was maybe someone is missing getting cancer biopsy back in time or some asthmatic kid might need the oxygen tank.
He couldn't attend anymore. They were just assholes. There was a bump in membership by right wing loons during the worst of the pandemic but that is over now. They never gave any money and now there is no persecution complex involved, what is the point.
Let it die. It can all die.