the latest discussion between the wife & I (page 3)

kgfreeperson

I didn't get here in time to read your post, Paul, but I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and hoping for the best.

W: I remember being so scared that Thunder would never see the evil that the borg was. We argued ever meeting over NOTHING just neither of us wanting to go, tired from work etc. My fear was losing him and what we had. Thank GOD I was not a mindless drone like many of the women.

I remember a sister confiding in me in a nutshell she was spewing cause her husband wanted a NORMAL sex life, you know lingere, oral sex.She acted as if he was a MONSTEr for wanting these things. I put my butt on the line and told her AND......What is he doing wrong? Why do you feel the need to tell these people (elders) everything)? From that night on I made sure Thunder knew i was not long for that life.

I thank GOD or whoever every day that I came away with him and we are still together.

I did not see your real post but from comments and thinking it is along this line. If you want to discuss it more just PM either Thunder and I

Special K

Hi Winston..

I didn't get to read your topic before you took it off..

But I just wanted to say, I'm thinking about you....

Obviously, you wife is feeling pulled in two directions.

It's hard when you have been taught to love Jehovah God with all your heart...

It's almost like trying to make her see that you are her husband and not Jehovah...

The screwy thing about it is that your programed to think that is the right way.. Jehovah first and husband second or vise-versa.. Jehovah first and wife second.. (OOPS ..women are next to last in that religion aren't they?)

Stupid stuff....

sincerely

Special K

Big Tex

Winston

I left in 1989. Nina left in 2002. It was a long, sometimes cold, wait. But in my heart I knew this woman. I knew who she was, even though she sometimes didn't. I knew she would see what I saw. I knew she would leave.

But I also knew it would be a mistake if I forced. She would always wonder, and she would blame me if anything in life went wrong. And so I waited. And waited.

Ultimately what forced her out was not the shoddy treatment she received or the false teachings, but it was the sight of her son receiving the same treatment she had been getting for all those years. In that instant, she saw it all and knew what she had to do. It was an awakening, an epiphany if you will.

And she's never once looked back.

I don't know if your situation is similar, but at the end of the day, you know your wife better than anyone. In your heart you know what she'll do. And there is where your answer is.

Be well,

Chris

Satanus

Winston

'Bad guy' in the perception of an objective onlooker, perhaps a divorce judge, if it got to that. What the cong, or individuals in it think doesn't matter one iota.

SS still wishing you the best

bebu

Didn't read your original post. (Glad you removed it, actually, for your wife's sake! )

You should have had all of this figured out before you married me.

Shouldn't she have figured out that you may be a learning and growing person? She should have figured out that you might change before she married you. No one marries their spouse at the end of their life, when no further change is possible--except death. Marriage is a commitment to walk together the road of changes, seen and unforeseen. She cannot, therefore, complain, since she knew what she herself was committing to the unforeseen.

BTW, gathering that she is not happy with some hopes you have in the bedroom... If you force anything on her, using your "headship" status, it will only backfire horribly. You will, I think, do better to "suffer" yourself than to make her do anything she personally does not want. The role of the husband is to love--which means to serve and to sacrifice for his wife (something that overlooked in JW theology, I am sure). Make a major decision to give her the better example of Christian husband than what a JW wife expects.

Wishing you the very best,

bebu

Globetrotter

bebu,

SheliaM got it right:

I remember a sister confiding in me in a nutshell she was spewing cause her husband wanted a NORMAL sex life, you know lingere, oral sex.She acted as if he was a MONSTEr for wanting these things. I put my butt on the line and told her AND......What is he doing wrong?

Acquiescence to "suffer" is not the answer. He will be miserable. You were also right in pointing out that people change. The problem is that the organization gets too deep into the personal lives and issues of people, and they are not allowed to grow together as a couple (not in the sense of permission, but rather growth is stifled, not realized) Sex is part of that growth, and should only get better. NOTHING gets better if both people are on automatic all their lives... and that's no way to live.

bebu

Globetrotter,

I do not mean to say that Paul is a monster, or that things will never change for him either. I only mean that it will be better for him down the road if he doesn't force her into doing something NOW she really doesn't want to do. Not knowing all details, I can only offer a general solution. The good news is, she must have a fairly good head on her shoulders if she married Paul, so she is also likely to change.

The problem is that the organization gets too deep into the personal lives and issues of people, and they are not allowed to grow together as a couple (not in the sense of permission, but rather growth is stifled, not realized) Sex is part of that growth, and should only get better. NOTHING gets better if both people are on automatic all their lives... and that's no way to live.

I understand what you mean; I do agree! But patience is key for growth to be positive. We can and should work toward change. I'm sure that Paul is thinking thru all ways to help his wife see that their sexual expressions of love to each other are all good and approved by God, and that the marriage bed belongs to spouses ALONE. Yet, if his "misery" is the current price of showing a deeper kind of love to his wife, I hope he would recognize that he could reap a better benefit from the price, namely, the her exit from the bOrg. (And when that happens, chances are he will also be out of misery before too long. ...Would be nice if someone like SheilaM could have a similar exchange with her... Such things can make a difference in getting an opinion to change. )

Personally, I believe that a husband must make decisions with his wife's best interest always in view, because that is what love means--it is other-seeking, not self-seeking. It is a paradox that when we serve someone else, we benefit more deeply than the one we serve. Therefore, if he made an ultimatum for her to choose today between his desires and her current feelings and beliefs, I do think it would only widen a gulf, and perhaps endanger the marriage.

BTW, Paul, when you finished the sentence for your wife, it helped more than you know, I'm sure. There is a sense of relief in realizing one was truly listened to. Active listening is a very helpful skill to learn, if you haven't already. Just in case, here is a quick outline: http://www.iss.stthomas.edu/studyguides/listening.htm. I read that less than half of the people who study how to apply personal communication techniques (for counseling or whatever) actually use the skills. So, as "simple" as it sounds, it really takes deliberate practice and focus. It really might help knock down some walls between you...

bebu

Edited to add: OK... I got sent a quick soundbite. Sounds very frustrating!! Yet, I do think that it still could be more damaging to be pushy than patient. In general, the same rules work. If I had kid gloves, I would send them. And then boxing gloves, to hit whomever tries to enforce the WT on you.

LittleToe

Sheila:It was nice to hear of how things can turn out well

Bebu:

The role of the husband is to love--which means to serve and to sacrifice for his wife (something that overlooked in JW theology, I am sure). Make a major decision to give her the better example of Christian husband than what a JW wife expects.

With respect... in some cases this gets you walked on.
After two years trying this approach, things are worse than ever, in my case.
However, I'm well aware that that's not to say that it wouldn't be different in another case.

GlobeTrotter:

NOTHING gets better if both people are on automatic all their lives... and that's no way to live.

For sure. After two years of that kind of behaviour I took stock of what I wanted out of life, and what I could reasonably expect to [give / take] from the relationship. It was a revealing study. After throwing into the pot how various courses of action might affect my wife, I felt more torn than ever. At the end of the day it's an individual decision, and there's little likelihood of consensus.

Chris:

I don't know if your situation is similar, but at the end of the day, you know your wife better than anyone. In your heart you know what she'll do. And there is where your answer is.

To a degree this is certainly true, though life has a habit of surprising us.
It was nice to hear how things worked out for you, too. Thirteen years is a long time. Did you have kids before that (sorry, I forget the ages of yours).

Mike:
Astute observation, my friend.

Aztec

I am never getting married! Never!

I'm sorry that so many of you are having problems in your marriage because of the dubs. Truly.

~Aztec

the latest discussion between the wife & I

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