oh oh oh, and the most important part. If your brother-in-law isn't worried about anything else, he'll be worried about this. When you are a JW, ORAL SEX IS BAD. no suckey suckey for that guy once she's in. dreams are shot =( The elders will try to peer into their private lives like stink on shit.
Please can someone help me with this question?
by finger 24 Replies latest jw friends
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jws
How can I make her see she is making a mistake, If I tell her I think it is bad will that make her more determind?
That's a very good question that many of us with JW friends and relatives would love a good answer to. Unfortunately, there is no all-encompassing answer. Different people respond in different ways. Some people never respond.
As was stated above, new ones are warned that there will be pressure that they say is because of Satan. According to them, Satan sees that somebody is being brought into "the truth" and will try influencing anyone and everyone to try and stop her from doing this. So you will be viewed with some caution.
You might try broaching the subject of whether she is sure this is the right religion. Feel around and see how convinced she is. If she is not fully committed, then you have an opening to start working on her. Armed with facts to dispute her religion (I realize this is a lot of work), you might question her on certain things and slowly turn her around.
Like I said before, Crisis of Conscience is what convinced me to leave. It was written by Ray (or Raymond) Franz. He was almost as high as you can go in the organization. He was on the "Governing Body" (a secretive group of older men who decide their religious beliefs). His uncle was probably the main theologian and source of their beliefs for much of the last century and also served as president until his death. It exposes a lot of the way they work that no average JW actually sees. It shows how the average JW is kept in the dark and manipulated. How life changing decisions are forced upon people by a group of old men, seeming on a whim.
There is plenty of free information out on the web on a variety of topics if you want the quick-read.
Personally, for me, it wasn't so much doctrinal issues that did it for me. Some of those arguments are totally unwinnable. Are God and Jesus seperate or part of a Trinity? Does the soul live on after death? Do people go to heaven? Do they go to hell? It's best to stay away from biblical issues, in my opinion. JWs have plucked out scripture here and there and are trained with scriptures that will support their view. You show them something different, they're still going to know what they saw. It's very hard to win. And some of those things can never be known. If there is an afterlife, we will not know until we're dead. Then it's too late to tell anybody about it.
Things that did it for me are things like 1914. They believe Jesus came invisibly in 1914 and has been preparing to start Armageddon since. They claim that Satan was cast out of heaven and has been stirring up trouble down here since. So, things have gotten noticably worse since 1914. Most noticably is that World War 1 started that year. Facts show that things are about the same before as since. To arrive at 1914, they have to use a faulty date for the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon back in 586/587 BC. They say it's 607 without support from any historians. In fact, they take great pains to try to discredit historians to bolster their claim (and then use those same historians when it does support them). When you see the history of this date, it's been a moving target. They originally thought Babylon was conquered in 536 BC (now they say 539, as does history). They backed up 70 years to get 606 BC. Then, they added 2520 years to get to 1914, forgetting that 1 BC to 1 AD didn't have a year 0 in between. So, that should come up to 1915. So, they played with the numbers. Babylon was now conquered in 539 BC, but the Jews didn't go home until 537. Back up 70 years and you get 607 BC. Now, you can add 2520 to 607 BC and get 1914. The only reason they're sticking with 1914 is because World War 1 broke out that year and they thought that "proved" their prophecy. Although nothing that they prophecied prior to 1914 ever came true that year. Prior to 1914, they believed Jesus arrived invisibly in 1874 and that Armageddon was going to come in 1914. When 1915 rolled around and everybody was still here, they moved everything forward 40 years and stuck with that story since. It's a mess. What I once thought was some amazing Bible detective work turned out to be manipulating the evidence to fit the theory. Most JWs don't even know this as their self-written history books conveniently gloss over that date, only mentioning that church founders looked to 1914 as a significant date, never admitting what they believed was going to happen.
Two great books on this are by Carl Olaf Jonsson. One is Gentile Times Revisited which examines why 607 is wrong. The other is Last Days When which examines whether things really got worse since 1914. The Gentile Times Revisited is great, but it's pretty heavy on archeology and history. It's kind of a deep read that probably only JWs trying to find the truth will have the patience for. Last Days When is a little less deep. It goes, one by one, through the signs that JWs say point to the fact that things have dramatically changed since 1914. So, each chapter sort of changes focus and makes it an easier read. It's sort of like a detective work, exposing each false claim with research.
For me (and my personality), facts outside of pitting one bible verse against another were what did it for me. I'm not saying that will work for her.
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darkuncle29
There are some really good answers here for you. If I were you I would take them and 'Reverse Engenier' them into very pointed fact finding questions. I am not good at this but as an example:
Can I still whatch R-rated Movies? [Note: preprep the person with info about how the JWs will answer this question. They will most likely NOT be given a "yes" or "no" or other simple direct answer. They will give a long wordy answer that drags them into the bible and leads them into the conclusion that the JWs want them to arrve at.]
Can I celebrate my husband's/Bf's birthday? [Again, preprep the person with the JW programmed response.]
What is Disfellowshipping? How does it work? What sins? [For this question pinning the JWs down on the actual social mechanics of DF might be interesting.]
Those here who have actually experienced a situation like yours would be more apt at helping you formulate your questions and strategy. Good luck.
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A Paduan
The elders believe that they are God manifest - hence they reserve the right to "interpret" (and extrapolate) and dictate what is 'good' and what is 'bad'.
Either you fall in line or "God" won't love you - as relayed by God manifest - aka the elders.
It's a doomsday cult, with nasty consequences - how do ya reckon you'd go with your partner more attached to that than yourself? Not so groovy.
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bebu
How can I make her see she is making a mistake, If I tell her I think it is bad will that make her more determind?
Well, is she online?
I would give her a link to this site, and especially to Winston's post above giving the timeline of how a person gets drawn into the JWs, and the tactics they are using. Give her a link to www.freeminds.org. Have her investigate some things first.
If she is not someone you can do this with easily, send this info to the boyfriend. The internet is THEIR FRIEND, as it's dang hard for the Watchtower to hide all the incriminating evidence of all their scandals and flip-flopped doctrines and revisionist history.
Let her know that you applaud her wanting to do something that is right--but how right will it be if she doesn't double-check the info you have? In fact, you might say to her that if she could help you understand how to get over the "hurdles" you've been finding out, you would be willing to look further into JWs for yourself--but NOT BEFORE.
Good luck to you, and thank you for being such a kind person!
bebu