WHY are there no mentally challenged new JW's...?

by Rabbit 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  Rabbit

  forgetmenot:

  I really was not trying to cast any shadows on anyone, especially those who suffer from 'developmental' problems. This post was not intended to be about the 'words' used to describe persons WITH these problems. My opinion is 'political correctness' is generally a waste of time. As 'Shamus' pointed out -- it changes all the time, it's hard to keep up. My opinion is. as long as the 'words' used are technically correct and they are not insulting, i.e. an ethnic slur or other deliberate words that are meant to hurt. A person can have depression and not be 'mentally ill'. I had a head injury which caused me to have Epilepsy, people are surprised to find out that this is NOT 'mental illness', but, IS a disability.

  People can be 'slow' or 'developmentally retarded,' that is a fact...However, calling someone 'stupid' or 'a retard,' is a bona fide insult. As is seeing someone have a seizure and thinking: drunk, dangerous, 'mental illness', infectious or on drugs! Been there --- done that!

  You did bring out some good points and I appreciate your comments.

  I cannot agree that most witnesses have 'mental defects' of some kind or actually TRY to recruit this type of person. Having been a full-time pioneer for 3 years, MY experience was that almost none of these people were seriously studied with. Anyone who wanted to study GOT a study, even if it seemed obvious that they were only being polite or they were old and lonely and enjoyed the attention and company. Some were druggies or alcholics, one I studied with would drink cologne during the study. Usually, they would stop soon or not come to meetings.

  THIS was one of my reasons for starting this thread: It bothered me...that there was no further effort to help these people. A lot of these people were affected by social and 'mental...problems,' whatever the politically correct term was then or now! It bothered me that there was no 'support or help programs' available as there is in some other churches. If they would not or could not study they were cut-off. If they do of course HAVE the intellect to go thru the study, meetings, baptisms and mess up later (and could not stop) i.e. drinking, smoking, sex, etc. they are disfellowshiped, still without any REAL help programs

  So, maybe an x-elder can help...? In the Elder Schools and CO & DO meetings (and up...) was this discussed? And what was the thrust of their advice?

  Thank everybody...

  Lee
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  Rabbit

  forgetmenot:

  you said:

  One of the most gross but deep penetrating stereotypes is that disability and sin are directly linked. Often when you read in Jesus miracles of curing disabled people, it?s accompanied by ?your sins are forgiven? or demons are expelled

  I do agree with you on this one. Back in the 'good old days' in Salem, Mass., If, yours truly, had been found out by the church to have seizures -- I would have been burned-at-the-stake!

  yours truly, Lee
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  Rabbit

  Avishai: I am sorry about your brother -- no sense at all to treat him that way

  Valis:

  Rabbit...I think your question is by far short sighted. My own sister has Down's Syndrome and for as long as I can remember my parents are more than willing, as in several conversations, to give custody of her to my dad's best friend from early in the JW experience

  Maybe I am looking too shallow -- I hope that was not the 'norm'. Do you think it was just your parents or wide spread? I've never known parents like that -- again, I am sorry y'all went thru that. What did happen to your sister?

  Avishai...what happened to your brother?

  Lee
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  heathen

  I thought you had to be mentally challenged to be one . Good God they don't encourage thinking for yourself , if you can just sit there with a blank stare and read the answeres in the publications seems to be enough .
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  avishai

  Rabbit, you have a pm.

  My bro is doing great.

  Valis, you and I really should go out & have a "salad" and discuss.

  Politically correct terms bore me to tears, I don't care if someone says my bro is a retard as long as there is no harmful intent. Old people do that sometimes. Oh, sorry, I mean the "Chronologically challenged."
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  Rabbit

  Avishai:

  Old people do that sometimes. Oh, sorry, I mean the "Chronologically challenged."

  That was a good one...PC can go too far. Even 'old people' I know found that one funny!

  I did PM you back...hope it helps.

  Also, I screwed up, I thought you were from the Great State of Texas. Sorry, not everyone one is lucky enough.

  ~ Lee ~
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  forgetmenot

  I guess I must address this notion of politically correct terms. It is important to call people what they want to be called. If you stated your name as John Smith and people called you Veronica Blue, I think you would be upset (even if your name was Veronica Blue). This is a case of control. It?s an example of you not letting somebody define themselves. It is true that not everyone wants to be referred to as a person with a disability (I kind of like just ?person? better ) but of all the terms possible, it is the least constrictive and less defined. You let people BE themselves and DEFINE themselves. This is true with all minorities (poor, old, gay/lesbian, racial minorities, etc.). It?s not that we don?t want to be different, we just don?t want you to use it against us. Let us define ourselves and tell you what we are, not the other way around. Changing your speech to update politically terms (when told that others are not politically correct) reflects your respect for the person.

  P.S. Avishai: You said
  

  Politically correct terms bore me to tears, I don't care if someone says my bro is a retard as long as there is no harmful intent. Old people do that sometimes. Oh, sorry, I mean the "Chronologically challenged."

  That?s nice that YOU don?t care. I wonder how he really feels about it?
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  mrs rocky2

  Politically correct has been over done, but more importantly respect has been underdone! Good point about respect forgetmenot!
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  Rabbit

  Forgetmenot said:

  I guess I must address this notion of politically correct terms. It is important to call people what they want to be called.

  I know your heart may have good intentions...however, in the real world, that is very hard, if not impossible to work. For instance, just the fact that the terms keep changing means that NO individual and certainly ANY group are almost EVER going to agree or at least agree for very long! If they do -- I will tend...after a while to go along.

  Another, which you OUGHT to be familar with is: most any person or group that professes to believe in Christ, want to be called 'christians'. Well, they can WANT all they WANT, but, in the end...they will be called that, only if they are seen to BE christians, how they are perceived by, "the beholder".

  Look how many 'induhviduals' in many races have 'perceptions' of of what name THEY have decided, needs to be attached to their ENTIRE race? Some are simple, some are confusing. There has been no vote...! Usually, the loudest mouth or mouths get their way and the rest of us are expected to 'get-on-the-train, too! You are allowed to choose -- so am I -- so is anybody. That doesn't make me or you right or wrong.

  What I said was in NO way intended to hurt anyone, I believe you know that and just decided to let me know, just who was the superior, sensitive human. I hope I am wrong.

  By the way, I wanted to let YOU know, I think I am the smartest and handsomest man ever to walk the earth...and as such, as you said:

  It is important to call people what they want to be called.

  Yes, I want to be CALLED that by you or my feelings will be hurt. By the way, I think EVERYONE in my family in the present and past history want to have that moniker applied to them, too!

  There...I have spoken and thus it will come to be...! yeah yeah, right...well I tried...didn't have a big enough mouth. *sigh*

  OK, you are now welcome to take my words and meaning and misquote and play around with them, like you did to 'avishai' (well, you better ASK him!) , but, knock yourself out on me. Remember, though I am 'disabled', be careful...

  I have figured that you might want to be called something like,"She who is Superior to others and knows it and speaks for all the 'disabled' and down-trodden masses." To be known as:

  "Ms. Politico Correcto All the Time-o."

  Seriously, try not to be so thin-skinned. I really do wish you the best. I think you are trying to do what you think is best, so do we all, I hope. I was having some kinda serious tongue-in-cheek fun with you. I hope we can have good discussions in the future about the actual subjects of the posts, instead of getting off and "not seeing the forest, cause of all those pesky induhvidual trees...

  Wanting to be your friend, ~ Lee ~
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  Rabbit

  Forgetmenot said:

  Changing your speech to update politically terms (when told that others are not politically correct) reflects your respect for the person

  and Mrs, Rocky, too...

  I, too agree about the respect part. Sometimes, tho' when people of a group can't agree -- it can make it impossible what to say, without offending SOMEONE.

  Another Exanple and my last: There are 'Black' people that are offended by being called 'African Americans.' they say "I'm not African!" "Or if my race is African American, what if I live in another country???" Or others that don't like any of the other monikers that are used. Universally, though, there is COMPLETE agreement that the infamous "N" word is wrong. I think everyone knows that. The only other groups that WANT to use this word are people who want to hurt, want to cause devisiveness. They want to offend, they want to be superior, if only in their own minds...!

  Wouldn't you agree with that...huh...?

  Very sincerely, ~ Lee ~