I wonder how many people these "shepherding visits" close the door and go to the internet? It seems more reasonable to me to not want to stir things up, to let people fade away, rather than to make people defensive and look for reasons why the Watchtower is wrong! It seems to me lots and lots of people fade away because they just get worn out rather than they stop believing. But visits from elders designed to trap you into doing something so they can announce you have disassociated yourself and bring down all manner of grief on your head just seems to me likely to provoke people to want to plant doubts in the elder's heads! As some of you here have been able to do. Foolish people.
Elder Visit
by Coqui 22 Replies latest jw friends
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gumby
Elder question: Do you beleive this is the TRUTH?
Me: Do I believe WHAT is the truth?
Them: Do you believe Jehovahs Organisation has the truth?
Me: What truth do you mean....be specific?
Them: Do you believe that the Organisation is the channel Jehovah is using.
Me: Using for what?
Them: To preach to good news ,assbite!
Me: The good news about what, dickhead?!
Gumby ..........* fantasizing about a conversation he would never accomplish in real life*
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Stephanus
This is confusing to me. Why are they interested in hunting people down and df-ing or da-ing them. What is the advantage to the organization?
Freedom for the plebs has always irritated those at the top of this high control religion. The whole idea of making DAing in effect the same as DFing was to make sure that leaving the religion was to be considered a bad move by the one leaving. However, as usual, the jack-booted autocrats didn't realise that there was a "3rd Way": the slow fade. Done properly, the doubter can leave and still have family contact, provided they don't make waves. But this will never do in the 'Tower's view; they want to be feared and revered, not merely "tolerated" by the one who leaves, and they certainly don't want to tolerate such a one!
Why the recent move towards addressing this issue? Probably boards like this one, where apostates can brag that they were never DFed or DA and can still move freely among Dubs. Those monitoring the boards are probably seething at the thought of freedom among those that the 'Tower itself refers to as "slaves" (either "fellow" or "wicked"). The Org can't bear the idea that those here are getting their intellectual (and worse, spiritual) nourishment here and yet can move freely among those they control. So the job of the elders now is to establish what class the "faders" belong to, "fellow" or "wicked", and treat them accordingly, either dragging them kicking and screaming back to the 5 meetings a week and regular field service particpation, or to shun them as apostates.
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Sassy
If we stay living where we are we will never b truly free I now realize that one must begin a new life far away to escape the terrible judgement of these people.
that was one of the reasons I moved.......with no forwarding address left behind for the elders to try and find me..
I can have a real life now.......
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garybuss
Coqui, I had to say goodbye to them before I could move on. I informed any who shunned me it would be permanent and returned and moved on. I have never been sorry. I am sorry I didn't do it years sooner . . . before the leeches got two of my sons.
The elders are actually doing a far better job of getting people to leave the group than any ministry or probably all the former members put together. I applaud them. I hope they keep it up. GaryB -
Carmel
Coqui, you don't need to move anywhere to be free. Freedom is closer than your life vein. Simply refuse to let them bully or coerse you. Put the dam tree back in the front yard for the trashman, act like the man you want to be and ignor the simpelton nerds from the KH! You are as free as you want to be, no matter where you are or in whos company. Its entirely up to you if you want to take contorl of your own life..
carmel
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Sassy
Your right, you can Carmel. I know people who have done it. But if they force his hand to make him either come back or DA or DF him, then there will be things out of his control that impact his life. I am not saying he should move, I took the easy way out but I was losing hair from the stress. I had to get out of there. I look at my sister who has been dfd since she was 14 yrs old. She is now going on 40. She still runs into people who will move from her 'short' line in the department store to the one three times longer to avoid being near her, to avoid eye contact. Sure we can say fu to them and ignore them, but just the same, for one split second they can take our nice going day and totally change somehow our thought pattern and change that nice day if only for a moment........I mean who loves being shunned..
Next year I get to put the Christmas lights OUTSIDE and hang them from my windows.. I don't have to hope no one goes by my window and sees my Xmas tree or sees me buying ornaments in a store... The freedom of not having neighbors across the street who might even be JWs but I don't know they are, and they don't know I ever was, so rather than a shun when I cross them to get into my car, I can get a smile........after all.. I am only a neighbor.........I love that!
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Max Divergent
This sort of questioning is their only really strong tool against someone doing NOTHING, like not going to meetings but not being seen to critisise the WTS (or otherwise sin) either. It's best dodged, but that's hard to do.
When that question was asked, I knew I was on a hiding to nothing and took a risky approach to kill it off....
I said that I'd been doing some soul searching and looked up heritic and apostate in the dictionary.
I said that from this I realised that if I said Yes, then I'd be a dictionary-definition heritic because I wasn't acting in accord with my beliefs; and if I said No, then I'd be a dictionary-definition apostate for turning against my beliefs....
I said that I was sure I wasn't either of those things, although I wasn't sure how I felt right now - partly becuase I was having a tough mental and emotional time right then...
They looked at me like I was mad (which was good, as that was part of my fast tactical withdrawl under covering fire strategy - ill health is about the only acceptable excuse for eccentric behaviour for the JW's), accused me a few times of using smokescreens to avoid talking about it all and to dodge the question, but couldn't find a scripture that said that was a sin, so they left and didn't bother me much more after that....
Not too long later I moved a long, long, long way away...
My advice - DO NOT try this dangerous tactic at home!!
Max
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Maverick
You had a complete stranger come into YOUR home and question YOU?
In your home you run the show! Ask this person to qualify who he is that he should question you about something so personal as your belief in God! I would be indignant! How dare this stranger cast aspersions on your spiritual veracity! And in your own home no less!
Tell them you are very disappointed at their lack of courtesy and love for their brother! Tell them you thought they were there to encourage you and look! They come to interrogate you! Be offended and ask them to please leave your home. And stay offended ...as long as you want! Maverick
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Coqui
Thanks again for all replies. Maybe I need to visit the website more often. You all validate my feelings and understanding.
Yes I am thankful for escaping especially for my kids. I did lose about 18 years of my time in the great meeting rush but I am now 40 with good health and lots of time to live. My kids who are still quite young I know are tying to piece this whole thing together, old aqaintances passing by our house that we used to see weekly at this secret building with no windows.
For me to make the break without moving is not so hard but when you bring into the fold the comlexities of another person(my wife) and how she can or can't deal with it becomes difficult.
Yes maybe next year I can put the Christmas tree in the front of the house.
Thanks