Why does God allow people to develop 'forbidden' special powers? (page 7)

rem

I can't believe I missed out on this thread for so long! :)

If you are really interested in what real scientists think about such things, I highly recommend the following books:

Pseudoscience and the Paranormal, Hines
How to Think About Weird Things, Schick
Why People Believe Weird Things, Shermer
In Search of the Light, Blackmore
Demon Haunted World, Sagan

If you are not really interested, then I don't expect you to ever step outside of your comfort zone and do the research. It is easier to believe, I suppose.

As far as Auras, and interesting experiment would be to see if Auras looked the same to all who saw them. A random sample of people would be displayed (or hidden behind a body-length mask) one at a time in a neutral setting to several people who see Auras. Their observations would be recorded (in some objective format, if possible) and all communication between the viewers would be controlled (i.e. no communication).

If a statistically significant correlation between observers and viewers can be found (viewers were seeing the same colors for the same people) then there might actually be something to it. If not, then everyone's aura's are subjective and are basically made up in their head.

Why is it always the skeptics that have to come up with obvious tests? This is 7th grade stuff here.

rem

LittleToe

Rem:

As far as Auras, and interesting experiment would be to see if Auras looked the same to all who saw them

I understand that Abaddon did exactly this. He commented on this point recently.

Xena

If you are not really interested, then I don't expect you to ever step outside of your comfort zone and do the research. It is easier to believe, I suppose.

Aka...read the books I say...believe what I say...or you are wrong and stupid....

Why is it always the skeptics that have to come up with obvious tests? This is 7th grade stuff here

Because they are the ones that don't believe it, therefore the burden of proof or lack thereof is up to them.

This WAS a nice discussion...ah well the ~~moral majority~~ ~~Jehovahs witnesses~~ rabid skepics have shown up...

LittleToe

Xena:Ooooh, I love it when you get feisty

rem

LT,

Ah funny - great minds think alike! :) j/k

But seriously, it was the very first thing that jumped out at me when I read the experiences about auras... whether it's paranormal or not is immaterial - it's still fascinating to me and I'd love to see the results of an experiment that helps us understand the phenomenon a bit more.

I guess I'm just curious as to why 'believers' never seem to care about such things. From my perspective, which may or may not reflect reality, they seem to be content with their anecdotes knowing that the critical eye of controlled testing will not (or even just 'may not') back their claims. To me it seems that such types of believers actually become anti-science in a way, knowing that science is indeed capable of exposing the fact that the emperor has no clothes.

If you really believe you have a special power, why not test the hell out of it? Make it useful for society. Take antibiotics, for example. Penecillin went a long way from it's humble beginnings - a tiny , almost unnoticed effect in a petri-dish. But this small effect was harnessed and applied to the human body in a way that has helped millions of people in a measurable way.

Can we get at least one such accomplishment from the paranormal? Even tiny effects, if they exist, should be able to be harnessed and engineered into something worthwhile to society.

rem

Pleasuredome

REM

yes i wondering when you would turn up.

i have to say that i read something that you said in a previous thread about the paranormal, about how if you believe in ghosts etc that your will experience them. i think you were spot on there. believing is seeing. but i dont think you can use that to claim that its all in the mind though. maybe by 'believing' you open your mind up to seeing things that really do exist.

LittleToe

Rem:

When I was last around a few folks who claimed the ability to see auras, I asked them what colours they were seeing (I now wish I'd asked them to write them down, without comment). They were unanimous in their observations.

Ah funny - great minds think alike! :) j/k

Was the joke at my expense, or your own? Personally I think you are an intelligent guy

Can we get at least one such accomplishment from the paranormal? Even tiny effects, if they exist, should be able to be harnessed and engineered into something worthwhile to society.

Like we do from art?

SM62

Lots of interesting viewpoints. All I know is this - I have spoken to a few people who have seen/heard things that can't be explained. These people are not liars, and they are not mad or prone to hallucinating or anything, as far as I know. They have nothing to gain by stating that they saw such things. One of them saw his dead brother - he isn't the sort of person to lie - he really isn't. If I saw my dad sitting in my living room, I'd know what I saw. I'd know it was him and I'd be annoyed if people thought I was making it up for attention. I have never had this sort of experience. I have never had any sort of unexplained experience. I can't see auras, I can't predict the future, I don't even have what some class as feminine intuition. I am pretty boring and never experience anything untoward. BUT - I don't doubt those who say they have. What have they got to gain by lying? So many people have had such experiences, they can't all be liars, mad, hallucinating etc etc. Personally I don't know what to believe, but I wouldn't rubbish the experiences of others just because I haven't experienced the same things myself The same goes for those who say they have had wonderful spiritual experiences and they are convinced there is a God because Jesus came into their lives etc etc. Just because I have never felt such a thing, I wouldn't say that those who have are fooling themselves. It isn't good to shut off your mind to things just because they don't fit in with your own personal view. An open mind is healthy.

Terri

rem

Xena,

I once was a believer. I have had the experiences. In fact, I still have 'paranormal' experiences to this day. I just understand them better because I educated myself. People who don't take the time to educate themselves are not necessarily stupid, but they are (willfully?) ignorant.

::Because they are the ones that don't believe it, therefore the burden of proof or lack thereof is up to them.

Well, that's the crux of the matter right there, isn't it. The best form of gaining knowledge that we know of, and has been proven in the historical record - the scientific method - says that believing something without testing it is the surest way to deceive yourself. The burden of proof is *always* on the one that is making a positive claim.

Saying you can see an aura is a positive claim - it is your burden to prove it, not mine. Yet such claimants never seem interested in proving their claims. This is backwards, pre-scientific thinking. In fact, a bunch of claimants can even be saying contradictory things, but that doesn't seem to bother the believers. There's something wrong with that!

rem

rem

SM62,

Having an open mind includes being open to the scientific explanations. There is a myth out there that science doesn't know much about such things. This is untrue! There have been over 100 years of experimentation of paranormal phenomenon. It has been exhaustively studied. That is why I recommended the books.

rem

Why does God allow people to develop 'forbidden' special powers?

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