144000 The numbers don't add up

by LevelThePlayingField 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LevelThePlayingField
    LevelThePlayingField

    In 1935 there were 63,146 who attended the Memorial and 52,465 partook. (Proclaimers book page 717). According to the Bible Teach book on page 78, it says, “Since the days of the apostles, God has been selecting faithful Christians in order to complete the number 144,000”. So using that logic that since the days of the apostles till now, there can only be 144,000 max then, according to Acts 2:41 at Pentecost, “about 3000 people were added”. And Acts 4:4 says, “many of those who had listened to the speech believed, and the number of the men became about 5,000”. So that’s 8,000 just with in the first few years of the apostles.

    So, 144,000 minus the 52,465 who partook in 1935 brings us to 91,535.

    The 91,535 minus the 8,000 from the first few years of the apostles = 83,535.

    Of those alive in 1935 who partook, let’s say they were all 10 years of age or older. So then, if everyone who partook in 1935 was only 10 years old, they would be 82 years old now. But the far majority were much older. So nearly all of those who partook in 1935 are now dead.

    In 2017 there were 18,564 partakers. In fashion with JW theology, let’s just count half of them. That’s 9,282. So, the remaining 83,535 minus those currently partaking 9,282 = 74,253. That’s over half of the 144,000 taken up already.

    That leaves only 74,253 total people who could have accepted Christ and became Christians since the days of the apostles. From the year 34 C.E. to 2017 is 1,983 years. That equates to only 37 people earthwide per year who became Christians since the days of the apostles until 2017.

    There were about 200 million people alive on earth in the first century. Using the equation of an equal amount converting per year, that’s 37 people being converted to Christianity per year. That would mean of the 200 million people alive in the first century only 370 people would find Christ during the next 10 years. This doesn’t make any sense, when there were 8,000 who converted around Pentecost of 33 C.E. alone.

    Let’s say that was a one time thing, and that after that only and only a tiny fraction of just 1% of that number became believers every year. That would be 80 being added per year, and that’s not counting, as the Bible says, the many who were being added daily. 80 per year for 1,986 years is 158,880. Add that to the 74,253 already spoken for and you have 233,133. And that’s saying that from 33 C.E. onward, the number of those who become Christians will be down by 99% of the Biblical accounts.

    (200 million alive in 1st century. Source:)

    http://www.businessinsider.com/what-life-was-like-in-the-first-century-2011-11

    (John 12:42) All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue;

    (Acts 2:41) 41 So those who gladly accepted his word were baptized, and on that day about 3,000 people were added.

    (Acts 5:14) 14 More than that, believers in the Lord kept on being added, great numbers both of men and of women.

    (Acts 6:7) 7 Consequently, the word of God continued to spread, and the number of the disciples kept multiplying very much in Jerusalem; and a large crowd of priests began to be obedient to the faith.

    (Acts 2:47) 47 praising God and finding favor with all the people. At the same time Jehovah continued to add to them daily those being saved.

    (Acts 11:21) Furthermore, the hand of Jehovah was with them, and a great number became believers and turned to the Lord.

    (Acts 11:24) 24 for he was a good man and full of holy spirit and faith. And a considerable crowd was added to the Lord.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Yeah, there have been hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Christians killed for their faith. Obviously, these people who died for their beliefs were just trying to fool modern JWs into questioning the ever-growing list of memorial partakers ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#During_the_Middle_Ages_and_Early_Modern_period

    The idea that any "seats" are left for JWs to fill, let alone so many, is the height of arrogance. We're supposed to believe that people who keep to their faith to the point of death are somehow not earnest compared to the WTS, who get everything wrong (by their own admission) but who were "chosen" because they were at least trying?

    Incidentally, this quote stood out:

    Oppression of the Christians reached its peak under Emperor Diocletian, who ruled the Roman Empire in the early 300s and launched the “Great Persecution” in the year A.D. 284. It lasted until 311 and left 144,000 Egyptian Christians dead.

    http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub368/item2079.html

    Oops, I guess the 144,000 seats are all filled right there!

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    Very solid point!

  • freddo
    freddo

    LTPF "Of those alive in 1935 who partook, let’s say they were all 10 years of age or older. So then, if everyone who partook in 1935 was only 10 years old, they would be 82 years old now. But the far majority were much older. So nearly all of those who partook in 1935 are now dead." (Bold italics added)

    92 years old actually. Born in 1925 ... so maybe even 93. It improves your excellent post.

  • alanv
    alanv

    The more anyone looks closely at JW doctrines, the more they will find they dont stack up. When many of us were active in the faith, we simply never questioned what we were told. Now it is so easy to check everything on the internet, and we find holes in the whole religion. Just something as simple as the preaching work is a good example. We were told that the whole world has been preached to. That is a complete lie. Over one third of the world has never even heard of the Jdubs. Of the remainder another third has had very limited contact with them. Its only the last third who fairly regularly see them, and even then, most of the public have no idea about their actual doctrines are and what they really believe.

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard

    its a ridiculous doctrine, doesn't make any sense whatsoever , to think I was requested to attend a judicial committee on the charge of apostasy because this very doctrine which I vocally disagreed with was on a list of charges that they concluded made me an apostate, another one was that I disagreed with was the "generation of 1914" not having any biblical basis and we are not living in the last days! LOL, this was in the early 1990's.

  • MrRoboto
    MrRoboto

    What you fail to take into consideration is that 'baptism is a requirement for Christian discipleship' and that baptism is only valid if the person has accurate knowledge of god and his purpose. So anyone baptized into another religion has an invalid baptism. This was stated in a recent Watchtower study.

    I'm not sure the exact year the WT took that stance of rejecting baptisms of other Christian sects but it was taught for a number of years that a fresh baptism was not necessary.

    Considering the above, most of the early "anointed" would be in the position of not having a valid baptism and thus not actually anointed (oops!) I would also argue that a) since the JW versions of accurate knowledge changes every year, all prior JW baptisms are invalid and that b) since JWs always have inaccurate knowledge anyways, with their cult twisting of scriptures, that all of their baptisms are invalid according to their criteria.

    So no worries, plenty of slots open then.. Assuming the millions of Christians coming before them didn't take all the slots already.

    JW theology is so full of holes and discontinuity that it would be laughable if they didn't have such bad effects on people.

    Incidentally, when I started heeding the admonition to read the bible daily, the 144k deal was one of the first obvious flaws that I noticed.

  • dozy
    dozy

    That's a good analysis. I remember when I was still in doing a similar "back of the envelope" calculation and I could see it didn't make sense.

    I'm convinced the the Society would love to change 144K from being a literal to a figurative number , but it is so ingrained in JW theology that it would be such of a major piece of "new light" that it could well "stumble" some ( and possibly would trigger a further acceleration of new ones partaking which is the last thing the Society want.

    It suits the Societies interests to have an ingrained 2 class system , where a small number are leaders ( anointed JWs who aren't GB are generally dismissed as fruitcakes ).

  • tiki
    tiki

    Impossible to make sense out of nonsense......

  • waton
    waton
    The idea that any "seats" are left for JWs to fill, let alone so many, is the height of arrogance.

    bold added for emphasis

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