Do you still believe in God? (page 8)

FreeWilly

I'll believe it when I see it.

When I stepped back from JW's I too reconsidered all of my beliefs. The Bibles explanation of God is very inconsistant. Like all other religions, it tells of miraculous happenings by heroic people in a time long, long ago, far, far away. Yes its all true, but that doesn't happen now cuz of (insert excuse). Is it all really a coincidence that all forms of religion point to an unseen diety that for some strange reason cannot be detected whatsoever?

Where are the myriads of Angels?

Why wouldn't God at least interract -say/do something- to save his 'children' from his genocidal rage?

It's all smoke and mirrors if you ask me.

Narkissos

I would really like to be able to prove to myself, beyond all reasonable doubt, that... I haven't wasted the last half-century of my life...

Oh boy! I was not aware of that. I spent some 13 years with the WT and I think it was already far too much. Anyway, I guess every lifecourse has to be silly in some way ("vanity" as Qoheleth-Ecclesiastes has it) -- and yet wonderful. It reminds me the dying words of Bernanos' "Curé de campagne" ("Countryside Priest"): "What's the difference? All is grace."

do you have any suggestions for a "recent critical Bible introduction"?

In English, unfortunately no. But Euphemism or someone else may have. There was a recent thread on this board about "study Bibles". I wouldn't recommend the NIV Study Bible which is very fundamentalistic as far as introductions are concerned (not much more critical than the WT "All Scripture is Inspired" book). Perhaps there is something in the Anchor series (their Dictionary of the Bible has very good articles).

one of the things I'm really enjoying at the moment is reading novels, that I never had time to read before.

I read a lot of novels before and after leaving the WT. Many French ones of course, but I also enjoyed Hermann Hesse's works (another Pastor's son, just like Nietzsche...).

I don't understand your use again of being 'attracted to' one definition or another. Do you mean that, at the end of all your own reading, for you it all boiled down to your own personal preference?

Maybe I was not clear enough, or used the wrong English expression. Let me try it again:

I think most philosophers or theologians use the word "God" as a kind of mathematical unknown factor, an "x" which can be filled with almost any definition. That is already what the Johannine texts were doing when saying, for instance, "God is Spirit", "God is Light" or "God is Love". Such concepts of "God" are pretty unrelated to the common notion of "God" as Creator, Almighty, Supreme Judge, etc. In such "definitions" the word "God" is not used realistically, but metaphorically. The belief in the real existence of a divine being is not essential to them, rather the source of many misunderstandings, for in the minds of "believers" the common idea of "God" as Creator, Almighty or Judge always overrules whatever else may be metaphorically said of "God". (I'm afraid what I just wrote is only more obscure than what I wrote earlier, but who knows?)

So long,

Narkissos

Insomniac

With no real proof, just my gut feelings, I believe very strongly in Her.

Sirona

IT Support

You asked how I was so sure that God exists before I even started along this pagan path. Well, all my life I've seen spirits (ghosts or whatever you want to call them). Not every day, but periodically. On occasion I've "known" things before they occur, things I couldn't possibly have known. I am fully aware of theories relating to altered states of awareness (hallucination...etc) but I can honestly say that some of the times when I've experienced this I've been other people who also "saw" the spirit, and on one occasion I received a message from a spirit which was only "proved" weeks after the message had been given (I couldn't have known the information prior to the message being validated). I just can't say its all "hallucination".

Couple that with the fact that I'm intelligent and mentally stable - I don't have entities plaguing me or telling me what to do (I'm not schizoid...honestly...LOL), I'd say that overall there is too much evidence in my world that there is more out there - that spirits exist and so does God (if consciousness can exist in the form of a ghost, then other energy consciousness can exist IMO)

I know in my heart that I've lived before - I know this is going off on the reincarnation tangent, but it is part of why I believe. I have memories from a *very* young age. I remember having a photograph taken of me, and only in adulthood did my mother get out the picture and I'm about 12 months old. But that isn't my first memory.... and all of this suggests that we go on and we can reincarnate. Just recently I had a past life experience - the first one in my life that I can say was truly a past life (I've had dreams about past lives but I can't be really sure as to their content and how accurate it is as a memory)

You ask

Again, I'm not being argumentative, but say the Bible is correct, and what if you're experiencing 'demon' contact? How can you tell?

Well, for a starter the bible is very "incorrect" in very many ways. Still, your question warrants discussion because that is the claim of the JWs, that all spirit contact is demonic. Well, you asked about this regarding contact with Deity. As I explained, I believe that Gods (Goddesses) exist as facets of GOD (the All) and I think that we see them in human terms because that is how we understand them. I've experienced contact with a Goddess and I know this is vague but I KNOW who it was, the power there was nothing like talking to a spirit, it was immense, loving, everything all at once - and the message given was profound and beneficial.

I believe that there are universal laws and that negative entities meaning to harm us cannot appear this way (and if you simply tell them to go away if they're not from GOD, they have to). The negative entities are not all that ubiquitous - JWs would have you thinking that demons just love to cling to a lamp you bought from a car-boot sale, just waiting to jump out on you, but that is just their ridiculous scare-tactics. The JW suggestion that every single paranormal occurrance and every single spirit sighting is just demons trying to "trick" us, is truly ridiculous and is simply used to support their doctrine of death being like sleep, etc.

Sirona

James Thomas

What an excellent post!

Why must the Source of Life be separate from life? Why must God/Truth be separate from your true being? Separation is an idea; a mental concept. When there is no idea or thinking "I am a separate individual", then where do I start or end? What is there then?

I think that this was one of the most important things I changed in my belief system. We are not separate and all have the divine within us. I see it as existing both within us and outside of us (we are all One in the end).

Sirona

SM62

I really, really want to believe in God. I don't want to think that we are here for a short while and then lie for all eternity six feet under. But I am afraid that sometimes my longing for there to be a loving God sways my thinking too much. There is a big difference in wanting to believe in God, and in actually believing in God.

Heathen mentioned all the poor children born into a life of starvation - I think about this often. If we are meant to live and learn, and ponder about things, what chance do these poor kids get? They are born into a life of misery and can't even die in comfort - just a hard, stony ground for them to rest their poor little heads. If this is evidence of a loving God, them I'm a monkey's uncle! Some people are born with everythng, others have such a pitiful existence that it makes me dumbfounded.

Sirona,

I know in my heart that I've lived before - I know this is going off on the reincarnation tangent, but it is part of why I believe

You always put things so beautifully, and I really enjoy your posts. Can I just ask you, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, what do you make of my above comments? Why are some people reborn into misery and poverty? What can a person possibly hope to learn if they only live for a few minutes? What of those who are born sick or disabled in some way - what is the point of that? I am not getting at you or anything, it is just something I have often wondered about because I have often thought about the possibility of reincarnation.

IT Support - thank you for bringing this subject up. I have enjoyed reading this thread - I have been feeling pretty down lately and it's nice to get other people's views on something which I think is very important. The people on this board are so knowledgeable - I'd love to be able to think and express myself like this one day.

Terri

Abaddon

Reading these posts its very obvious some people are drawn to belief in god. Often this is through subjective experiences, or through a desire that 'this is not it'.

Great; good for you. Have fun. I mean it.

It's equally obvious that some have reached the conclusion there is no god, or that there is insufficient data to reach a conclusion because people are drawn to god by subjective experiences or internal desires, and the consequent beliefs seem so varied in expression that it beggars belief there's anything other than synchronicity and wishful thinking behind it.

I'd love there to be paranormal powers, a reason why, and after-life.

I can't for the life of me justify those beliefs, because I have none of the subjective foundation others have, and refuse to let myself believe in wishful thinking again.

fearnotruth22

Yes I am convinced in the existence of a creator.

run dont walk

No,

probaly died centuries ago, if ever existed.

scotsman

There was an interesting interview with Robert Winston on R4 last week on the programme Devout Skeptics - you may be able to find it on the BBC site and listen to it as his take on belief in God was very interesting. He's Jewish and left his faith in young adulthood but has returned to it, in a way. He's isn't sure if God created man or vice versa. As individuals with faith had a higher chance of surviving in the concentration camps he suggested that faith may well be a product of evolution, as it can enhance survival.

Sounded like he has a thoroughly postmodern sort of faith.

If you want a faith, but not too focused, go visit the Unitarians.

Do you still believe in God?

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