Abaddon,
"As opposed to it being OK to glorify the Die Hard series of movies? Is this statement a caution against excess in general, or are you singling out glorification of porn movies as bad whilst putting action movies with high body counts in a seperate catagory?"
The movie industry and all its genres (i.e., drama, action, comedy, etc.) is one group of categories of movies. Porn films, is a category all unto itself. I don?t consider the two to be equal. One can try to make comparisons, but that?s just attempt to legitimize an unrespectable medium. IMO, a porn queen is not to be equated to a movie star (which by the way was the basis of this thread). Tell ya what, when they start handing out Oscars for best Blow Job or best Three-some or Best Anal, then maybe I?ll reconsider my point of view, but I?m not exactly holding my breath for that to happen, know whata I mean?
"Oh, I think the workplace on a day-to-day basis is where women are demeaned far more frequently . . ."
Two wrongs don?t make a right.
"So I don't find that a valid objection unless you are seeking to exstinguish demeaning women in other areas of society where the demeaning has a daily impact."
Oh, so if I can?t stop ALL of a bad thing I shouldn?t attempt to eliminate at least part of it? That?s nonsense. That?s all or nothing thinking. Hey, you start to make a change where you want to help stop women from being demeaned and I?ll start where I think I should. Tell ya what though in the meantime, I?m in the workplace everyday and I don?t demean women in any way and I also don?t advocate anything that would do so, such as the porn industry. Do you actually see the pornography industry as an industry that promotes a better image and encourages the better treatment of women? I can?t believe that you would.
"As for 'unrealistic image of sex'... sorry, I don't agree with that either, at least with regard to it being a bad thing . . ."
Well, I guess we?re just gonna have to disagree. I believe that pornography does create an unrealistic image of sex and it is not only a bad thing it is also destructive. It?s addictive, and one wants more and more of it. It creates a hunger for more pornography that can be difficult to satisfy. It can and does take over people?s lives. It starts the false indoctrination of young boys into thinking women are little more than sex objects and sets up the stage for the demeaning of women that you already seem to acknowledge exists. The unrealistic portrayals of life in other mediums may have their own issues. So choose to restrict your viewing as you see fit. I do happen to believe BTW that the violence in movies today does play a hand in helping to desensitize young people to the reality of its consequences. But that doesn?t in any way diminish the damage and adverse affects of pornography. It seems to me you?re trying awfully hard to do a ?more negative? comparison to pornography in an attempt to justify it.
"So faking anger and crying is natural for an actor, but faking an orgasm is not?"
If you think that faking an orgasm in a porn flick is a true acting skill and is representative of an art form, then you and I have a completely different view theater, my friend.
BTW, I stated that many women who have played parts in porn movies have regretted it for a lifetime. I didn?t say all do. That?s your all and nothing thinking coming out again. My statement however remains true. I can?t help it if that makes you feel uncomfortable. After all, I know I how much you don?t want to demean women right?
"So, what is art then?
When does an image of a human chnage from art to porn? Is nudity the dividing line; I sincerely hope not! What about posture, is that the dividing line? Or is it the depiction of sexual activity that makes a well-executed photograph of a beautiful women porn, whereas one of her without her hand in her xyz is still art?
I'm not saying I have the answers, but I suspect despite the statement above that coming up with a fits-all definition of art is something that will fail you. Why, for example, if sex is the dividing line, IS sex the dividing line? Are you not making a cultural judgement rather than an objective view of the mental processes used?"
Oh, this is a tired argument (yawn). And why I said in my last post, "Believe as you will". Obviously this something that can be subjective and there are grey areas. Look, do I believe that a nude statue of a woman is art? Yea, probably. Do I consider a nude statue of a women bent over with a guy?s member stuck inside her rear, art? Uh, no I don?t. You do? Well, your criterion for art and mine are definitely different then. It?s a value system kinda thing.
If your agenda is to try and legitimize the porn film industry and ?spin? it into to an acceptable entertainment medium, then you have a long hard road ahead of you. When the plot is penetration and the close-up is genitalia then this is NOT and art form such as that of what a true actor aspires to. Ergo, a porn star do not a movie star make. The community at large does not recognize porn as acceptable entertainment. It therefore remains a class unto itself, as it should be. But if that?s what YOU need, then go for it! There?s plenty of it out there. But don?t waste your time trying to place a head-trip on me cuz I think what you may consider "good entertainment" as something debase. That?s? my point of view. It seems to me that your view is that, since there's bad here and there, well hell, its OK for there to be bad everywhere. Why discriminate? Everything?s equal, right? But everything isn't equal. Therefore we as a society must evaluate what should be discriminated against.
There?s nothing more that I can say to you that is going to change you point of view, anymore than you are going to change mine. So, why continue?
