by Amy in PA 45 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Amy, welcome to the forum.
I am not going to sugar coat it for you. Your "man's" decision is typical for a married man who wants his cake and to eat it too. He is only using his religion as an excuse to have fun with you without paying the price of divorce and all the things that go with that divorce. You are being played and the JW faith has nothing to do with it.
Get away from him.
Robyn
Hi Gumby,
Do you feel their action is a common action with Elder bodies in this regard?
First, I will pull out my WT CD and see if I can find the Society comments, but I do recall that "spiritual endangerment" was added to the list of reasons to leave one's mate. It was published about the time I was starting to leave, so I don't know how it has been applied in the last 10 to 12 years. - Jim W.
?? If the JW who is guilty of adultery gets a legal divorce,is he free to remarry scripturally ? I was under the impression that only the non-guilty party would be scripturally free to remarry.
According to the witnesses, their is a 'forgivness clause' on the INNOCENT ones part for resolving the problem. The society has compared this infidelity forgivness, with jehovah's forgivness of a transgressor.They teach that the innocent one should forgive a REPENTANT adulterer who is truely sorry for their actions, and that forgiving or not forgiving, rest between them and Jehovah
If the guilty one obtains a divorce, they are obviously NOT SORRY for what they have done or else they would welcome back the innocent ones open arms, and not try and justify their wanting a divorce. They have NOT obtained a scriptural divorce, and this would weigh in a judicial matter as to repentence were the guilty one wanting to remain a dub and and trying to escape a DFing.
( I know all this stuff cuz I talk to the great and almighty Freddie Franz at the edge of my bed at night)
Gumby
Yea Gumby he probably would be DFed but plenty of folks do it, get DFed and then go back. I know one who is an elder after all the crap hit the fan and he paid his price and went back
Yea Gumby he probably would be DFed but plenty of folks do it, get DFed and then go back. I know one who is an elder after all the crap hit the fan and he paid his price and went back
I agree LadyLee. Lots and lots and lots do this very thing. They do it by society politics. They figure they will get what they want and get DFed......play their cards right......and if they are good enough to know the "ropes of repentance"......they can be in good standing again. People can suffer for a year being DFed to get the mate they want.........look at poor old jacob in the bible who waited for Leah for seven years.....then had to wait another seven. *gumby realises he may have all the bible names and year amounts completely wrong because he's getting to be an old bastard and he made a fool of himself* Gumby
((((hugs)))) sad to hear you going through this heartbreaking situation.
i think, in the real world, this would play out eventually and the two of you would be together..love would prevail. he obviously does not have a happy marraige and is not in love with his wife. all parties involved would be better off if the marraige ended and you all moved on. however real world rules do not apply in the world of high control religions or cults like this one.
unless your friend comes to realize that everything he believes about the jw's is not true i dont see a happy ending. he lives with incredible guilt and even if he does divorce her he will never stop feeling guilty for breaking Gods law and that can be just as bad as not getting divorced at all. jw's are taught from infancy that "Jehovah HATES a divorce". he will always try to go back to the cult and I can almost guarantee you he will eventually resent you and believe that you are part of Satans plan to turn him away from Jehovah. jW's are taught that Satan will use our friends, family and loved ones to slyly get us to turn away. the more loving the friend is and the more they make you feel special just proves how cunning and smart Satan is. That is why he has cut you off although he loves you so much and it is killing him to do so. That is how the brainwashed JW mind works.
there is no easy way for you to proceed. if it were me i think i would start slowly introducing information about high control groups and cult mind control. i dont know if he will but if you get him to read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz he might just realize that the 'truth' is not what he has believed it to be.
good luck...
flower
ps. imo, it is NEVER a good idea to get involved with someone who is married to someone else.
The continuing education of Amy....
Ok. I am confused now. Please bear with me. I sincerely need your help with this because I know so little about this issue and I need to know as much as possible. I seem to be missing something here. The two answers below seem to be in disagreement with each other. If you can clear this up for me, I will be so grateful.
Thank you. Amy ---still lost, but not alone due to the kindness of this board.
1. Lady Lee said: the guilty party can refuse forgiveness from the innocent party and the scriptural divorce will be granted. Is there a catch to this? Will the guilty party be disfellowshiped?
2. gumby said : If the guilty one obtains a divorce, they are obviously NOT SORRY for what they have done or else they would welcome back the innocent ones open arms, and not try and justify their wanting a divorce. They have NOT obtained a scriptural divorce, and this would weigh in a judicial matter as to repentence were the guilty one wanting to remain a dub and and trying to escape a DFing.
If the guilty party confesses and then refuses to accept the forgiveness of the innocent party then we would assume they will get a legal divorce.
In the JWs it is all about appearances and what others will think. If a couple gets a divorce then it will "become known" and THIS is a HUGE problem in the congregation especially if one gets remarried and wants to remain a JW.
If a "sin" can be kept secret then many times there will be private discipline. A frequent question is whether anyone knows about the "sin"
A divorce is not easily swept under tha carpet. if he plans to stay in the same area people will know. So the elders will have to take some kind of action. He might get that scriptual divorce but he will have to pay the price for it - if he is man enough.
If he has family that are JWs they will not be allowed to associate with him as long as he is disfellowshipped (DFed). If a family member were to get sick or die he will not be welcomed to visit or support. If he has a child get married he will not be allowed to attend. He becomes as if he were dead. And the JW belief that the end of the world is near means that if it came while he was DFed then he will die.
Amy,
He can confess to his wife . If he tells her he is sorry and to please forgive him,, she might forgive him and then when the elders meet with him , he might not be dF b/c of repentence and being willing to stay with her
or
he can confess to his wife and say he loves somone else and ask for a divorce. he will be hauled before the elders and he will be DF b/c he can't be repentent if he is unwilling to consider staying with his wife.
conclusion
robar is right
u are bing played.
this man has a good thing on the side and he knows it. He has a wife and u too.
He is already free in God's eyes and he knows it. he is playing u for a fool.
I'm sorry he has used u like this. but he has used u.
I am still overwhelmed by the support, advice, and assistance from you all. Thank you. I am sorry but I do not know how to use the "quote" method yet. I will try to figure this out tomorrow.
funchback: Your writing about JW's being masters of conditional love scares me. Heck, it's all starting to scare me. Truth be known, I am such a sane and level woman, but for the past week, I've been having tremors. The more I read, the more frightened I become. I just want to tell you that I have not felt anything but unconditional love from my JW man. But things have changed lately. It seems if he is going to follow his course back to the KH, then he will surely have to love me "conditionally"...that I remain "a friend" only and the entire relationship stay limited to that and the beautiful love gone by the wayside. What a waste of such a special blessing.
jgnat: Your advice to go to al-anon is wonderful. They give good advice on how to overcome enabling issues, among other things.
Lady Lee: I've written you personally but want to acknowledge to the board that I apppreciate so very much your specific writings on the subject at hand. What you told me is of great value.
cruzanheart: Thanks for your prayers and concern. I cried (yet again...make note to buy stock in Kleenex) because you were so sweet and supportive and encouragin. Thank you so much. I also appreciate hearing your thoughts about JW being a very damaging isolationist high-control group that is NOT the only way to salvation.
Nos and Rob: Thanks to both of you for your advice and thoughts. I can see why you would think this way. Unfortunately, my initial post was limited to just a broad background info. The details would show you that your intial thoughts are unfounded. It's a long, long story, believe me. We are very much in love. It's been this way for a long time. It's real and true love. As one of the posters said (flower)...in the REAL WORLD this could be worked out. It's the JW world that is all screwed up. The hold and the power amazes me. And it doesn't help any that the NEXT end of the world is 2035! I guess he thinks it's possible he might live this long.
Gumby: Many, many thanks for your explanations, the time you invested in posting, and the laugh you gave me about being an old bas***d.
Flower: You are a special, special person. You are right. In the real world this would play out beautifully. Unfortunately, the JW world is something that will always interfere with a life I would have with him. And, oh my... he might just think I am part of Satan...that scares me to death. I am going to ask him about this. Thanks for the book recommedation. I will go out tomorrow and buy it. I am pretty sure he won't read it--- that's another one of those forbidden things, isn't it?
Doubtfully Yours: Yes. I know adultery is wrong. God knows the condition of my soul. And HE still loves me! Your post did nothing but make you look small in the eyes of everyone else. I came here in the state of complete devastation and desparation. I have nowhere else to go. I do not personally know any JW's. I came here with the hope that I would find some answers. My wounds are extremely deep. I actually prayed for 15 minutes before I made that first post, not knowing if I was going to be ridiculed or not. I was afraid, alone, lost and on my last leg. Thank God, I was embraced. The responses I've received have made a wonderful, bright and brilliant difference.
Thanks again, to all of you.
