by DevonMcBride 21 Replies latest jw friends
That is great - good work!
I think that you are right about educating the public. I posted a while ago about targeting their bible studies - if there were a way to get details of who is studying that would be great - then the leaflets could be sent to their homes to inform them before they join. I know that could push them toward the JWs if not handled carefully, but....probably be a good idea.
I would like links to 1 page "apostate" stuff too
Sirona
Here is the link:
We ended the letter thanking the Watchtower for fighting for our right to be able to go door to door to distribute our material
LOL!
Wow, Devon! You impress me! I didn't realize that you were another person on the board that has never been a jw but continues to stay here anyway - and has the fire to fight the borg! I LOVE your approach! And like Elsewhere, I love your classic ending line! LOL!
Shotgun, I think you're right. The best places to target are the nations that are seeing growth. Too bad we couldn't get a "mission" funded to go work those areas. *wistful sigh*!
Worldly - Thanks for getting that link! I went and checked it out and although I admire the guy who put it together, I know that if I got that tract on my front door, I wouldn't read it. It's visually intimidating. People aren't going to want to read it if their eyes can't get "rest" or if there isn't anything on it to entice them to read it. Maybe someone here can re-write it to leave some "white space" and perhaps add some graphics. Even better, maybe Devon could post his version! (hint, hint!)
Bebu - I found the thread you were referring to! It was Euph that came up with something. Here's the link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/64480/1.ashx It is in his second post on the third page. Better yet, here is the link he provides: http://www.danielglick.com/handbill.doc
Phantom -
Let me know how it goes when they stage the "Bay of Pigs" invasion in Brooklyn or Wallkill. Just one more violent revolution... :)
With all due respect, it is an incredibly huge leap to associate passing out tracts informing the public of the heinousness of the WT religion with a violent revolution. Additionally, I agree with Devon that people will continue to suffer at the hands of the WT unless an information campaign is staged. We can not help these people by joining hands and singing "Kumbaya". But we can do it peaceably through information dissemination. My .02
growedup
As Lady Lee's recent survey indicates, information doesn't change behavior - emotional experience changes behavior, and then information is actually allowed in. Until the heart is opened, the tracts aren't much help.
The phrase containing the words "violent revolution" was a quote...sorry, too subtle. The WTS is not a singularity event - it is one of many dysfunctional religions that have been created which survuve by propping up unhappy, fearful people who don't beleive thay have any other real path to happiness. You could nuke Brooklyn, you could raze Wallkill, but the fundamental impetus of our culture that creates these crackpot religions will continue, and the only path towards eliminating them is to find ways to make our culture more fulfilling, more satisfying, and more compassionate.
I personally think that a lot of the motivation in these efforts is revenge against the WTS, rather than any kind of commitment to making the world a better place... and I personally believe that revenge is the lowest, basest human motive there is, and that rising above it is a wonderful indication of growth and progress.
Phantom -
I personally think that a lot of the motivation in these efforts is revenge against the WTS, rather than any kind of commitment to making the world a better place...
I imagine there is some element of revenge on the part of many people. Of course, neither Devon nor I, nor Bebu for that matter, were ever Witnesses. How do you explain our motives? I can't speak for the other two, but for me, I say it is because the WT insults my sense of fairness and that the members of their cult are entitled to know which God they are really following so they can make informed decisions (there's that free-will thing again) about their lives.
emotional experience changes behavior
Ok, Phantom, I can see where there could be some truth in this. Can you please tell me how we can accomplish this? Do we have international group therapy? Do we infiltrate the WT and provide emotionally unhappy experiences? How do we "fix" the people that are already so emotionally damaged that they may never reach Nirvana? I don't mean to sound as though I am mocking, because I truly am not. I am just saying that if someone wants to shoot down another's game plan, it would be beneficial to hear the alternative game plan so we can choose of our own free will which plan would be best. How do we accomplish what you are proposing?
growedup
You mean, how do I help make the world a better, happier, more fulfilling, satisfying place?
Or how do I make people feel the way I want them to feel, so that then they listen to what I and others have to say, and then they'll behave the way I want them to? (i.e., not become JW's, or stop being JW's...)
If you haven't been a JW, then you haven't experienced personally how little attention we paid to the critical material - until we were ready. You can't make them ready! If they ever get there, they'll get there because they have a longing that's not being fulfilled or a hurt that won't go away and wakes them up - and they'll start looking for more. If you or I have an agenda about when others should be ready to grow...well, isn't that your or my agenda? I have relatives who are JWs... I understand how much you can want someone to leave, trust me. At the same time, they won't leave due to my agenda. The best way for me to take JWs out of the WTS is to live a happy, successful, functional, and fulfilled life without the WTS - and help others to do the same. I believe that all boats rise in a rising tide, JWs included, and that one of the reasons that JW rolls are shrinking in this country is that, on average, life keeps getting better in this country. I believe that one reason that more people are willing to listen and take in anti-WTS info is that in today's culture, people feel more likely to emotionally survive without the WTS than they did in decades past. (Not saying it's a cakewalk, and I understand that many individuals situations vary significantly... and I believe my statement is reflected in the numbers.) Our society is more supportive of emotional traumas and processes, and emotional healing, than it has ever been... and I think that may be the single largest factor in the WTS's decline in membership in the US (not neccesarily as a conscious motivation).
I also simply tend towards Mother Teresa's viewpoint of avoiding being against things.
Hi Phantom good to see you back on the forum again on a regular basis...
I don't always agree with your viewpoint but like your reasoning...I have found that since having a child it seems to have changed the way I view things and accept them as well.
I know you may say that's BS or that again it was an emotional event in my life which has altered me which is true but that's the way it is. I bet if Mother Teresa would have had children she might have looked at things differently as well.
And Phantom after seeing you drink at onacruse and bikerchics I know you ain't no Mother Teresa
Phantom -
You mean, how do I help make the world a better, happier, more fulfilling, satisfying place?
No, I didn't ask the question right. My question was in reference to this statement:
The WTS is not a singularity event - it is one of many dysfunctional religions that have been created which survuve by propping up unhappy, fearful people who don't beleive thay have any other real path to happiness. You could nuke Brooklyn, you could raze Wallkill, but the fundamental impetus of our culture that creates these crackpot religions will continue, and the only path towards eliminating them is to find ways to make our culture more fulfilling, more satisfying, and more compassionate.
What I should have said was: How do we go about not just determining what makes a culture more fulfilling, satisfying and more compassionate, but how do we implement those ideas? IMHO, I don't think as humans we have it in ourselves to find what would be emotionally fulfilling for everyone - even given an array of choices - because what could be "it" in terms of emotional fulfillment for one person or group of persons could be the antithesis of emotional fulfillment for another person or group of persons. Everyone has different values. The only way to universally have peace in this world (which is what the result of emotional fulfillment and more human compassion) would be if mankind was razed and started from scratch. And I say this because we all carry previous experiences with us that no one can take away which go into how we view the world and determine our values. There are some people who find fulfillment in being a JW and I say if it makes them happy, then great! However, I believe they are entitled to know things about this religion that the WT suppresses without fear of disfellowshipping. Is it wrong for me to want that? Not to me, but maybe to others. I am not saying that people should not be able to CHOOSE the WT as their way of life - especially if it IS emotionally satisfying. I am saying that people who choose the WT have a RIGHT to know all the facts before making that choice - OR - have the right to be "grandfathered" in with that information without fear of repercussions. If they choose the WT after being presented that information then I wish them all the luck in the world. And I believe that since it is a fantasy that society could change to where all people are satisfied and peaceful, the only way to make a difference with these people in a timely fashion is by giving them the information and allowing them to choose for themselves. At the very least, the information may plant a seed - then if an emotional experience comes along to jolt them, they have at least two reasons to rethink the borg. We can't just sit around and wait for society to make a miraculous change - because as much as it would be nice, IMHO, it just ain't gonna happen.
This brings us full circle. If you believe differently, please help me understand how we can determine what is emotionally fullfilling and how we can implement those ideas without creating an environment for entities such as the WT to exist. Additionally, how do we "make" people more compassionate?
Again, Phantom, I am sincere in my questions. Perhaps I am too narrow-minded to see how this could work. If so, please show me with concrete examples as to how you think it can. Inquiring Minds Want to Know!
growedup
Gee's Devon.........You are impressive..
I'd be really proud to shake the hand of a guy like you.
Great job!..
You are an obvious "doer".....
good job again.
sincerely
Special K
