What if.....

by laurelin 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  laurelin

  I could use some help please. (again)

  I can't help but discover things that make me have serious doubts about Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole. But... and this is a big but...

  What if they are God's organisation? I feel as if I'm being blackmailed... if I don't make a go of this religion I'm effectivly killing my young daughter if it is Jehovah's organisation.

  My mum ( a pioneer and a lovely woman!) has tried to help me, but she just can't answer some of my questions and just tells me that it's Satan trying to get me away from Jehovah.

  What if she's right? But aren't I screwed either way?... cause I can't go with a religion that would appear to be very hypocritcal, but if I do and just pretend to be a good witness then God will know either way and my girl will die cause I haven't been good enough.

  I can't help but feel this teaching of children going through Armagedon only if parents do what's right is similar to the Catholics teaching of hell-fire. All I know for sure, is that it's keeping me awake at night.

  Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

  Laurelin
• 

  Simon

  I think this is where research comes in. When you study everything thoroughly you can put your mind at rest knowing that not only are they not the "one true organisation" but that there isn't one full stop (or 'period' for US readers ).

  I can recommend several good books on it but it depends what angle you want to look at.
• 

  dustyb

  trust me, you're gonna be right when it comes to the WTS. do a bit more research and you'll see its all superstition and lying....good luck and don't listen to us and don't listen to them, just listen to yourself....
• 

  Brummie

  Sorry you are going through this stage Laurelin, a lot of us have been through it, I guess its one of the consequences of having our minds controlled by the fear that destructive cults install into us.

  Its all fear , thats the only way they can hold on to us. Why would God bless you with a beautiful innocent child and then threaten to kill that child if you dont obey the Watchtower? Its the WTower that threatens that, not God! No wonder your conscience isnt allowing you to sleep, who would want to serve a religion like that? That would hold a mother and child in the grip of fear? disgusting.

  it's Satan trying to get me away from Jehovah.

  They install the fear of "satan" in to us, yet isnt God more powerful than satan? Why does the WT make satan omnipresent and yet say Jah has locality and can only be in one place at a time? When we are leaving the watchtower it seems that satan is everywhere an all powerful yet Jehovah is far away and cannot be reached...they gloryify the creature over the creator, no wonder you struggle with loyalty to that religion...who would want to be loyal to a movement that magnifies the devil in such a way and makes out Jah cant save us from the devil without the aid of the WT?

  but if I do and just pretend to be a good witness then God will know either way and my girl will die cause I haven't been good enough.

  This is the key, the WT would allow you to be the biggest hypocrite so long as you stay inside and keep quiet, its not interested in your mental health or well being, infact its not interested in you at all, you are just a number and an amount of hours, and your daughter is just a tool they use to scare you into staying, unfortunately they dont even think much of your mother either, she is just a number and a timesheet.

  I'd rather be an hypocrite outside of the WT than one inside, at least we are free on the outside.

  All the best to you, I hope the sleepless hours soon fade.

  Brummie
• 

  mustang

  #1: You are suffering THE GUILT TRIP game, in spades...
  

  If they can’t answer your questions, just keep asking them. That’s what they do when you are 1st approached: pretend to have the ultimate answer for everything. Some of the answers are a fast-shuffle shell game and meant to "obfuscate" or cloud the issue. All items are repeated, ad nauseum; the result is that you are INDOCTRINATED.

  JUST KEEP ASKING AND PUSH THE GUILT TRIP BACK ONTO THEM: IF YOU CAN’T ANSWER ME, THEN YOU (the JW) HAVE THE PROBLEM, NOT ME.

  #2: "I can't help but feel this teaching of children going through Armagedon only if parents do what's right is similar to the Catholics teaching of hell-fire. All I know for sure, is that it's keeping me awake at night."

  Curious indeed, Captain

  I was doing some research on Baptism recently and had occasion to collect a number of Baptismal Vows to contrast with the JW Vows. I found something that I never knew and we were never told as a JW:

  Yes, the Catholics believe in Infant Baptism. BUT!!!: some responsible adult relative or guardian speaks up for the child. Later, in early teens, usually, the child has to speak for themselves and affirm the Infant Baptism. The thought being that they are now "of an age to make a decision" or some such. This is known as CONFIRMATION.

  I can see only a minor difference in technique, here, now that I have actually read the Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian and a dozen other sets of Baptismal Vows in a "comparative anatomy" mode. (Your reading those "pagan vows" isn't going to happen in JW study.)

  BTW, this was not the matter I was looking for in the research; I actually stumbled on this massive oversight.

  In comparison, JW parents must "maintain proper conduct and be in good standing" in an arrangement that is informal and unacknowledged to save their underage and unaware children; Catholic parents formally Baptize the infant and stand up for the child’s salvation in a similar manner.

  Both situations require that the child personally face the situation when they become of an "accountable age".

  The effective difference is one ceremony versus two. I have never seen or heard of this being discussed in JW rhetoric.

  Mustang
• 

  LittleToe

  Another angle is to begin by looking at doctrinally similar groups to the JW's (eg the Seventh Day Adventists) and widening out from there.

  You'll come to realise that most religions are trying to purvey their own flavour of something similar (albeit in far less destructive ways than the JW's), and hence the assertion that the JW's are the "only true religion" falls flat.

  This will take a little work, though. The price to be paid for freedom of mind!

  (A note to add that whilst I no longer agree with pretty much any JW doctrine, I'd mentally be happier allowing it it's place in the general religious community, were it not for it's obnoxiously harmful policies - it's for this reason that I endorse the title "CULT")
• 

  scotsman

  Just to add to what LT says:

  While I didn't believe that JWs had the truth, I did think they were pretty unique. Then I attended a meeting of th International Chruch of Christ out of nosiness (they'd been recruiting on my campus and had bad press about being a cult in the student paper). I was flabbergasted. While they had some fundamental differences of doctrine, they were amazingly similar in approach to evangelizing, friendliness, morality etc. And they were damned good with their Bibles (on palm pilot no less!). The Witnesses were not so unique as I'd thought.

  It's very difficult to make any stab at objectivity if you're attending meetings as you are flooded with information. When I was trying to get my head straight I called a halt to everything and took control, stopping anyone tfrom deluging me with pro or anti faith information. It was truly liberating.
• 

  Maverick

  If you are able, read Steve Hassans book on mind control. He never mentions the JW's but everything in that book was very familiar to me as a JW. One of the things that really helped me with the feelings you discribe was the exit phobias. Please take the time to read this book. Once you see the methods used the fear will go. Ask yourself this..."Is God an extortioner?" "Does he want you terrified ?" "Does He need to treaten you and your loved ones?" Maverick
• 

  Sirona

  Would God's organisation tell a woman that if she doesn't attend a specified building 3 times a week, she will be killed by God? Moreover, if she doesn't walk into that building 3 x a week then her little daughter will also be killed by God?

  Would God's organisation advise millions that it is better to die than have blood, THEN decide that having blood is actually OK now? (Don't let the talk of "fractions" fool you - they allow injections and transfusions of substances made from pints and pints of blood) Just think about all that grief suffered by parents of dead children, and Oh! NOW they say its OK. That isn't God's work.

  Would God's organisation control every aspect of a person's life, from who they marry to whether they get an education, to where they work, to the words they're allowed to speak? They're not just giving "advice" and they don't allow decisions by conscience - that is why they have "marking", "reproof" and "disfellowshipping" - they're all methods of control.

  God is NOTHING LIKE the Watchtower organisation and they are very wrong to be so arrogant about their status with God. IF there is a judgement day, The Watchtower Society will be judged pretty harshly, IMO.

  Sirona
• 

  Scully

  Laurelin writes:
  

  What if they are God's organisation? I feel as if I'm being blackmailed... if I don't make a go of this religion I'm effectivly killing my young daughter if it is Jehovah's organisation.

  My mum ( a pioneer and a lovely woman!) has tried to help me, but she just can't answer some of my questions and just tells me that it's Satan trying to get me away from Jehovah.

  What if she's right? But aren't I screwed either way?... cause I can't go with a religion that would appear to be very hypocritcal, but if I do and just pretend to be a good witness then God will know either way and my girl will die cause I haven't been good enough.

  Do you think maybe you owe it to your daughter to investigate whether or not this organization is actually "God's organization"?

  If it is, then you can go back with confidence and feel that you are giving your daughter the best chance possible at life.

  If it is not, then you can also have the confidence that you are making the right decision to leave the organization, knowing that you will not be bringing your daughter up in a religion that could be giving you and her a false hope. Not to mention sparing her the possibly needless hardship of growing up in a "culture" where she must be "submissive" to every male in the group, regardless of how intelligent and wise she grows up to become.

  Is it not in your daughter's (and your) best interests to find these answers?

  If you embark on this investigation in sincerity in order to resolve your doubts, why would a loving God hold that against you, regardless of what you discover? Do you believe that God inspired the words "Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine"? If you do believe that, wouldn't you be doing yourself (and ultimately your daughter) a huge disservice if you did not "make sure of ALL things" including whether this organization is really "The Truth"?

  We are all here for you. Feel free to send a message if you would like to talk privately.

  Love, Scully