Jewish Passover Starts evening 4/5, WTS 4/4, why the difference?

blondie

Has anyone attending still noticed the difference?

Has any explanation been given at the KH?

Blondie

undercover

Hmmm, I didn't know that. Leap year and the old fogeys missed it? LOL

Their explantation (I asked this years ago, when I wuzajaydaubya) was this- In years when the 1st Full moon (after the Spring equinox) appears over Jerusalem, at times, it occurs before sundown, at others, it occurs after sundown. Since sundown is the beginning of the Jewish day, this acounts for the occasional discrepancy betrween when Jews and jaydubyahs observe.

blondie

That sounds reasonable, L_T.

Are there ex-JWs who partake once annually? What day do you use?

shotgun

The reason is Jesus did not die on passover he died on the day of preperation.

The meal he instituted or the last supper was actually just the evening meal which took place the day before passover. The passover lamb was always slaughtered on the afternoon of preperation with the passover meal taking place that evening after sundown.

shotgun

Read the account in John carefully and see for yourself. See his remarks on the morning after Jesus arrest in John 18:28

28 Then the Jews led Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness the Jews did not enter the palace; they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.

Apparently the passover had not occurred yet as they wanted to be able to share in it so they needed to be kept ceremonialy clean.

And also John 19:13

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge's seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour.
"Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.

The day of his crucifiction was actually preparation day, which means the passover would begin that evening and had not occurred yet.

Love_Truth

Yes, I and other ex-JWs in this area observe the Memorial on the day the Jews do, we read the relevant passages from the Bible, pray over the Bread and Wine, and we partake of each, until the bread and wine are gone.

This is the ONLY observance Christains are COMMANDED to keep. That is why we do so.

DevonMcBride

I wondered this myself. Thanks for the explanation.

Devon

Narkissos

Just to follow up briefly on Shotgun's explanation, there is an obvious discrepancy between the Synoptics and GJohn as to the day of Jesus' crucifixion. As Shotgun showed, in GJohn Jesus dies the day before Passover, while in the Synoptics he eats the Passover and dies the next day (Nisan 15) -- notice there is no "evening meal" in John. In both stories symbolism is involved (in John Jesus dies when the Passover lambs are slaughtered), so that it is impossible to know which account is historical -- if any. Some (e.g. Annie Jaubert, 1957) have brought into the picture the Essene solar calendar displayed in the Book of Jubilees (in this calendar the Passover always falls on Tuesday), implying that Jesus and his disciples did not follow the official temple schedule, but this fails to explain the difference between the Gospels.

As for the one day difference between JWs and Jews, it may be compared to the variations in muslim communities on the beginning and end of the lunar month of Ramadan.

JCanon

Read the account in John carefully and see for yourself. See his remarks on the morning after Jesus arrest in John 18:28

28 Then the Jews led Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness the Jews did not enter the palace; they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.

Okay, please note we have to use the original Greek here because of translation inadequacy. Jesus was taken to the Sanhedrin right at sunrise. They tried him there for several hours and then took him from Caiaphas (high priest) to Pilate specifically "de" early. That is translated as "but-early", which means it was just before the "early" watch. There were two "early" watches which they just called "early" depending on the context. There was the "early morning" watch which was like from 3am to 6am, and the early evening watch which was from Noon, when Jewish early evening began and 3PM. There were three "evening" watches, early, late and evening, meaning 12-3, 3-6 and 6-9 (late). Now, when the Greek adverb "de" is used with a time of day like this, it means "just before" that period. Thus "but early" would be understood by the Jews as just before the early evening watch, since this obviously was not just before 3am. So this is right when Pilate always saw the Jews which was around Noontime, the middle of the day. That's when they brought Jesus to see Pilate the first time. It was just before Noon the day he got arrested, some 5 hours or so after he had been condemned in the Sanhedrin where he went right at sunrise.

>>Apparently the passover had not occurred yet as they wanted to be able to share in it so they needed to be kept ceremonialy clean.

Unfortnately, again, there is CONTEXT here. By this time, "Passover" had become a term describing everything relating to the entire WEEK of Passover, and the Festival of Unfermented Cakes was exchangeable with Passover Week as well by this time. So any ritual connected with "Passover" could have this description. Now we know this isn't the original PASSOVER since Jesus ate Passover with his disciples per the Law so the Seder meal "Passover" was over. So what other meal of "Passover" were the Jews concerned about around Noon the next day? It was the special Noon-time meal that was part of the "solemn assembly" held on the first day of unfermented cakes! That's why the Jews didn't want to go in, it was still the 1st day of unfermented cakes, Saturday, Nisan 15 and around Noon when they were about to eat this other special meal at the temple and didn't want to defile themselves.

And also John 19:13

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge's seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour.
"Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.

The day of his crucifiction was actually preparation day, which means the passover would begin that evening and had not occurred yet. You are CORRECT about the crucifixation being on "preparation", but note this is not ordinary preparation, but, specifically "Preparation of Passover Week" as your translation says. Preparation is the day before a sabbath. Passower Week had TWO SABBATHS, the 1st and the 7th days, thus there were two preparation days associated with these sabbaths. Since they were not the usual preparation day, Friday, they called them "preparation of Passover" or Passover Week. These two preparation days of Passover Week were either on Nisan 14th or Nisan 20th, the day before the 15th and the day before the 21st. Since Jesus had already eaten passover on Nisan 14th and was arrested on Nisan 15th (the official DATE changed at Midnight just like now--note the 1st day of Unfermented cakes begins on the 14th!!! after sundown, not the 15th; it's the SAME NIGHT as Passover, the night they left Egypt--they left Egypt on the 15th. I know it's confusing with all the changes, but....). At any rate, this confirms that Jesus' was executed on preparation the day before the passover sabbath of the 21st, thus on Nisan 20th. BUT THIS SCRIPTURE does not indicate that, others do. If you compare the other scriptures, you'll see they do not use the "de" in front of "preparation for passover" as John 19:14 does. The "de" translates to "but preparation of Passover" which means just before that period of time. Thus this Noontime trial is just before preparation for passover would begin, which would be later that evening. So this is the DAY BEFORE Jesus died. Of course, note that Jesus was already on the torture stake/cross when at Noon it got dark from Noon to 3pm and then he died. How can he still just be on trial at NOON before Pilate? IMPOSSIBLE. It cant' get dark at Noon and he still be on trial. Furthermore, Mark 15:25 says he was impaled at the "third hour" which means 9 pm since the impalements were done at night. EXPLANATION? Easy. since "but preparation of Passover Week" meant the Noon before the day of preparation, this was Wednesday, Nisan 19th. That means after the trial, Jesus was taken out to Calvary where by 9PM he was impaled. He then remained on the stake the rest of that night and through the next morning until Noon when it got dark for three hours and then he died. This is also the ONLY WAY you can get Jesus to be in the grave for parts of THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS. It can only happen when you have two sabbath days in a row!! Jesus dies one day before a sabbath and rises one day after a sabbath. Those two sabbath days were Friday Nisan 21, the special sabbath of Passover, and Saturday Nisan 22, the regular Saturday sabbath. The three "days and nights " are Thursday, Friday, and Saturday day and night; part day Thursday and part night Saturday. So it's all there. It works. And that's the accurate interpretation of Scripture. What about Pentecost? Jesus by the incorrect history raises on the 16th and ascends to heaven after 40 days. He sends his disciples to the Upper Room immediately after his ascension where they stay until holy spirit comes. Pentecost is 50 days after the 15th. Thus it is thought it took 10 days for holy spirit to arrive. Question is, why were the Jews already held up in a room waiting for Pentecost when it was some 10 days away? This wasn't a week-long celebration like Passover Week or the Festival of Booths. BUT...when you have the accurate chronology where Jesus rises 7 days later on the 23rd, then it only takes 3 days for holy spirit to arrive, some 7 days less than 10 days!!! Of course that's consistent with a 3-day weekend rather than a 10-day holiday!! Holy spirit arrived only 3 days after his ascension. I know it's confusing but this is what the Bible teaches. There is no way Jesus could be on trial at Noon and it get dark at Noon. There is no way Jesus could be seen at the Sanhedrin right at sunrise, then taken to Pilate, then sent to Herod who wasn't expecting him, then impaled at the "third hour" which is 9 o'clock. All that happened in just 3 hours? I don't think so! Further his trial was at NOON!!! That's a direct discrepancy between his trial at Noon, impalement at 9 and it getting dark at Noon? So what gives? How about we sort of realize this is talking about DIFFERENT DAYS!! Furthermore, how about actually noting exactly WHEN Passover is celebrated. It is celebrated on the first day of unfermented cakes! It's the SAME NIGHT the Jews left. The DATE changes at Midnight and that's when Passover also ends. So Jesus was arrested on Saturday, Nisan 15th, no way he could then die that day and raise "three days and three nights" later. Further, as noted, when you understand Jewish timing, "but preparation of Passover Week" is the day before preparation, thus Jesus was tried the day before preparation. And "but early" means just before the early watch, so he was taken to Pilate just before Noon. After all, why would Pilate see the Jews early in the morning vs at mid-day? Every time Pilate deals with the nation it's at mid-day. Believe me, it's ALL THERE! Jesus did not die on Nisan 14th, he died on Nisan 20th and his trial was on Nisan 19th. It's a tangled mess but it has been unraveled for those who want to get into it. Take it....or leave it..... This is final and inflexible and totally non-negotiable (sorry)... Know this. JC

Jewish Passover Starts evening 4/5, WTS 4/4, why the difference?

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